Messianics - The "just In case" cult

[Chowmah]

These laws were only for the Israelites. Never for the Gentiles.

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Yeah DixieBoy it was for Israel only. Was. We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. But now in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

 

[DixieBoy]

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Yeah DixieBoy it was for Israel only. Was. We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. But now in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

There's a clear distinction made between the Jew and the non-Jewish believer. A more detailed explanation of the Acts 15 ruling can be seen in these following scriptures:

Act 21:21 But they have been told about you-that you teach all the Jews living among the gentiles to forsake the Law of Moses, and that you tell them not to circumcise their children or observe the customs.

Act 21:25 "In regard to the non-Jewish believers, we have already sent a letter to them saying what we think they should do . . .

We see that Jewish believers should not forsake the Law of Moses, circumcision and other customs of the Jews. Gentiles believers should not follow these things.

Gentiles are no longer strangers of the covenants of promise. They receive the promise through faith not through law observance. Both Jew and Gentile believers receive the promise through faith.

Rom 4:13 Abraham and his descendants received the promise that they would get the whole world. But Abraham did not receive that promise because he followed the law. He received that promise because he was right with God through his faith.

Rom 4:14 If people could get God's promise by following the law, then faith is worthless. And God's promise to Abraham is worthless,

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Good Word Dixie-Boy...

And, it is a Covenant of "Promise". (To Grace in/by the Blood of Jesus Christ.)

Another way of looking at this is that, in Galatians, the Law is likened to a tutor.

It instructed in the ways of Righteousness, but couldn't provide that Righteousness.

In fact even the best Blood Sacrifices under the Law only "covered" sin.

Where the (perfect) Blood of Christ "Removes" sin.

Another thought...

When I enlisted I enlisted for six years for a school I wanted.

One of the benefits of "Voluntarily" Enlisting for Six years was that I was fast tracked to being a Petty Officer instead of staying a "puke" for four or five years.

In like manner, much to the chagrin of the Jews, the Gentiles have been fast tracked past the tutorship of the Law and being God's toddlers to being full fledged sons (by adoption).

(As long as the First Born remains we can not promote ourselves, and He Lives forever... So while sons of God, we remain "inferior" and "subordinate" to Christ.)

Also, note the difference between "Voluntarily" Enlisting in God's Army and being Involuntarily inducted due to Familial Connections.

It's GREAT to be FREE-BORN!


Dinner call! Gotta Go.

 

[DixieBoy]

Good Word Dixie-Boy...

And, it is a Covenant of "Promise". (To Grace in/by the Blood of Jesus Christ.)

Another way of looking at this is that, in Galatians, the Law is likened to a tutor.

It instructed in the ways of Righteousness, but couldn't provide that Righteousness.

In fact even the best Blood Sacrifices under the Law only "covered" sin.

Where the (perfect) Blood of Christ "Removes" sin.

Amen, to that SMM.

Another thought...

When I enlisted I enlisted for six years for a school I wanted.

One of the benefits of "Voluntarily" Enlisting for Six years was that I was fast tracked to being a Petty Officer instead of staying a "puke" for four or five years.

In like manner, much to the chagrin of the Jews, the Gentiles have been fast tracked past the tutorship of the Law and being God's toddlers to being full fledged sons (by adoption).

(As long as the First Born remains we can not promote ourselves, and He Lives forever... So while sons of God, we remain "inferior" and "subordinate" to Christ.)

Also, note the difference between "Voluntarily" Enlisting in God's Army and being Involuntarily inducted due to Familial Connections.

It's GREAT to be FREE-BORN!


Dinner call! Gotta Go.

Oh, so you were one of those "push button" crow types ah? Man, I had to train those "auto-crows" all the time. And, I was a lowly E-3. Pitiful, just plain pitiful they were. :smilewinkgrin: :tongue3: But I do understand you point.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

---snip---

Oh, so you were one of those "push button" crow types ah? Man, I had to train those "auto-crows" all the time. And, I was a lowly E-3. Pitiful, just plain pitiful they were. :smilewinkgrin: :tongue3: But I do understand you point.

Yeah, Actually the term was more like "Rent-A-Crow".

But, Condsider this for "A" School I was 22 out of 122 or so.

For "B" School I was 4 out of 22...

Not bad for a 17 yoa GED 9th Grade Drop Out?

That was back when AV"A" and AFTA"B" were in Millington and Navy Schools *still* taught Theory at the ASEE level.

I've never regretted that training and it has stood me well throughout my life.

Yes, some of them were pitiful. Like guys with a year or two of EE in College were failing the courses!

 

[Chowmah]

DixieBoy Posted

Rom 4:13 Abraham and his descendants received the promise that they would get the whole world. But Abraham did not receive that promise because he followed the law. He received that promise because he was right with God through his faith.

Rom 4:14 If people could get God's promise by following the law, then faith is worthless. And God's promise to Abraham is worthless,

Well DixieBoy

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

Above scripture says what it says

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Yeah DixieBoy it was for Israel only. Was. We were once strangers from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. But now in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

GE:

Good answer!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Good Word Dixie-Boy...

And, it is a Covenant of "Promise". (To Grace in/by the Blood of Jesus Christ.)

Another way of looking at this is that, in Galatians, the Law is likened to a tutor.

It instructed in the ways of Righteousness, but couldn't provide that Righteousness.

In fact even the best Blood Sacrifices under the Law only "covered" sin.

Where the (perfect) Blood of Christ "Removes" sin.

Another thought...

When I enlisted I enlisted for six years for a school I wanted.

One of the benefits of "Voluntarily" Enlisting for Six years was that I was fast tracked to being a Petty Officer instead of staying a "puke" for four or five years.

In like manner, much to the chagrin of the Jews, the Gentiles have been fast tracked past the tutorship of the Law and being God's toddlers to being full fledged sons (by adoption).

(As long as the First Born remains we can not promote ourselves, and He Lives forever... So while sons of God, we remain "inferior" and "subordinate" to Christ.)

Also, note the difference between "Voluntarily" Enlisting in God's Army and being Involuntarily inducted due to Familial Connections.

It's GREAT to be FREE-BORN!


Dinner call! Gotta Go.

GE:

Not to disagree with you, but looked at from Paul's point of view, who in Galatians 4 argues that he - the Jew Paul - had first to become a Gentile in the eyes and ways of God's dealings with man in order to save the poor vain fool. Dismantling man's pride and arrogance is God's biggest challenge in saving anyone.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Re: "In Galatians the Law is like a tutor..."

GE:


In Galatians the law is like a plane; it flattens all men to the same level before God: Judged and found unsuitable.

But in Galatians Christ is become that Law for the function and purpose to create all men equal in the death of Christ. "Another Gospel" means but one thing: that the Law can take over from Christ and replace Him and create unequal and proud men. That’s why antinomians are always proud exactly like Colossians 2:20-23 tells.

But we are not tutored or examined to the measure of the written Law since Christ replaced the Law. The Galatians' error was that they stuck to the old conception that men are judged by the Law. If one were judged by the Law then satisfaction of the Law on the one hand - with circumcision - justifies its transgression on the other hand - with idolatry. Interpreted from the viewpoint that the Law could give life means - in recent terms - Religious Pluralism; interpreted from the principle that Christ took the place of the Law means - in good old time religious terms, OSAS and TULIP through Jesus Christ, ONLY!

 

[windcatcher]

Re: "In Galatians the Law is like a tutor..."

GE:


In Galatians the law is like a plane; it flattens all men to the same level before God: Judged and found unsuitable.

But in Galatians Christ is become that Law for the function and purpose to create all men equal in the death of Christ. "Another Gospel" means but one thing: that the Law can take over from Christ and replace Him and create unequal and proud men. That’s why antinomians are always proud exactly like Colossians 2:20-23 tells.

But we are not tutored or examined to the measure of the written Law since Christ replaced the Law. The Galatians' error was that they stuck to the old conception that men are judged by the Law. If one were judged by the Law then satisfaction of the Law on the one hand - with circumcision - justifies its transgression on the other hand - with idolatry. Interpreted from the viewpoint that the Law could give life means - in recent terms - Religious Pluralism; interpreted from the principle that Christ took the place of the Law means - in good old time religious terms, OSAS and TULIP through Jesus Christ, ONLY!

Ok: Explain TULIP? (I recognize OSAS as 'once saved always saved'). Acronyms sometimes confuse discussion for those of us unfamiliar w/ them. Thanks--J

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ok: Explain TULIP? (I recognize OSAS as 'once saved always saved'). Acronyms sometimes confuse discussion for those of us unfamiliar w/ them. Thanks--J

GE:

Allow me to answer with the following as it happened in a conversation of mine with someone not so unfamiliar with the acronym ...


If you wanted some ‘sign’ that THESE are God’s only one Church, observe the ONLY ‘sign’ there shall ever be of God’s one Church: WATCH FOR HOW THE CHURCH IS ATTACKED, SLANDERED AND PERSECUTED FROM EVERY SIDE BY ANY AND EVERY OF THE MYRIADS OF FALSE CHURCHES AND CHRISTIANS ESPECIALLY AT THE HEART OF THE CHURCH, ITS DOCTRINE OF FREE AND SOVEREIGN GRACE, ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED …TULIP!


Objector:
Um, what exactly is your point? Calvinism is a SALVIC issue because TULIP produces nothing but a false salvation.

GE:
'TULIP' produces nothing but a false salvation???!!!

'TULIP' for:
'T' for Total Depravity of man ...
'U' for Unconditional Election ...
'L' for Limited Atonement ...
'I' for Irresistible Grace ...
'P' for Perseverance of the saints ...

THAT 'TULIP' not "Salvation"?!
That is how Salvation and Redemption and Blessedness and Happiness and Everlasting Life are spelled in Christian Idiom. Most precious inheritance of the Reformation!

‘TULIP’ for:
‘T’ for UNREGENERATE ‘man’ in his Total Depravity …
‘U’ for GOD in His Unconditional Election …
‘L’ for CHRIST in His Limited Atonement …
‘I’ for HOLY SPIRIT in His Irresistible Grace …
‘P’ for REGENERATE 'man' in his Perseverance unto Glorification …
“your life hid WITH CHRIST IN GOD” …
...at the Return of Christ and the resurrection of the body...

the one and only GOSPEL of Jesus Christ!

Objector:
'TULIP' produces nothing but a false salvation!!!

GE:
So one must infer,
Total Depravity of man ... is “nothing but a false salvation”;
Unconditional Election ... is “nothing but a false salvation”;
Limited Atonement ... is “nothing but a false salvation”;
Irresistible Grace ... is “nothing but a false salvation”;
Perseverance of the saints ... is “nothing but a false salvation”.

Result: We sit with “nothing but a false salvation”— a false ‘Gospel’. And the truth is,

T. Man is not totally depraved and the Scriptures lie that he is;

U. God cannot elect unconditionally, He must choose the good and the bad without distinction, and the Scriptures lie that all men are wicked and only believers are forgiven their sins; also that God in truth shows mercy to whomsoever He wills and forgives their sins;

L. Christ’s atonement in far the most cases is ineffective and wasted and no one knows whether any of the few remaining ‘saved’ individuals will be actually redeemed in the end. Who knows who’s not a pretending hypocrite? So the Scriptures promote a hallucination of peace made with God through Christ’s finished atonement. (Hence the Seventh-day Adventists’ ‘Investigative Judgment’— condemning not only of Seventh-day Adventism, but of the whole of the Arminian bulwark of ‘free will-Christianity’, now-a-days going under the misnomer of ‘Evangelicals’.)

I. We sit with an irresistible and powerless Power of God the Holy Spirit, “nothing but a false salvation” and false ‘Gospel’, a hopeless atonement, and an aimless Divine Purpose. In a word, an imminent catastrophe that is going to end in the total destruction of the whole universe, awaits us if the Grace of God through the operation of the Holy Spirit is going to be ineffective, resistible and rejectable. Speak of fatalism, speak of free-will Christianity.

P. If the Perseverance of the saints isn’t true, the opposite must be true, the failure of the saints. And what is left of ‘salvation’? No! it must be said of Arminianism – free-will dogmatism – that it is “nothing but a false salvation”.

Summed up:
Goodness of man ... is “nothing but a false salvation” and the pride of man before his demise;
Conditional Election ... is “nothing but a false salvation” and hopeless future;
Unlimited Atonement ... is “nothing but a false salvation” and faith without foundation;
Resistible Grace ... is “nothing but a false salvation” and blatant blasphemy;
Failure of the saints ... is “nothing but a false salvation” and the devil’s very first lie making God the liar.

Spurgeon:
“ “He only is my salvation.” It was He who turned my heart, and brought me down on my knees before Him. I can in very deed, say with Doddridge and Toplady-
“Grace taught my soul to pray,
And made my eyes o’erflow;”
and coming to this moment, I can add-
“‘Tis grace has kept me to this day,
And will not let me go.”

 

[Chowmah]

GE:
If you wanted some ‘sign’ that THESE are God’s only one Church, observe the ONLY ‘sign’ there shall ever be of God’s one Church:

Yeah, the sign of Jonas

MATT.12 [39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; SO SHALL THE SON OF MAN BE THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH.

There are many churches who will try to tell you good friday till sunday morn equals 3 days AND 3 nights. Do the math yourself. They are not Gods church. They cant even count

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Yeah, the sign of Jonas

MATT.12 [39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; SO SHALL THE SON OF MAN BE THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH.

There are many churches who will try to tell you good friday till sunday morn equals 3 days AND 3 nights. Do the math yourself. They are not Gods church. They cant even count

GE:

You have missed on the SUFFERING factor in this Scripture. The 'three days' per se is ANOTHER MATTER; it is not the 'sign' IN ISOLATION from the SUFFERING implied.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There is another recent thread on the '3 days and 3 nights' in this forum.