20 Questions to Ask before Joining a Church

[stilllearning]

Hi preacher4truth

I am not sure you understand, what you think I said.

But you asked........

“What fruit do we look for, and why, and for what do we judge them, and to determine what, and to what objective?”

Jesus said.......
Matthew 7:15-20
V.15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
V.16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
V.17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
V.18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
V.19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
V.20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If a preacher, preaches a works based gospel: This is the fruit that he is bearing;
And you are to stop listening to him.
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You also asked.......

“I don't get the logical flow from the apostles penning the words, to judging todays pastors.”

There is not a connection.
This is what I was telling the last poster.

 

[preacher4truth]

I see what you are saying.

There are pastors though, who act according to Matthew 7, who don't preach a works based Gospel, which really is no Gospel., but preach the truth.

So if they are also bearing this fruit, are they also false teachers?

Or is it always what they preach and their demeanor both that make them thus?

The reason I ask and bring this up, is that virtually any OT saint has at one point, or many, bore this type of fruit, yet they did cling to the Word the Lord. So we could say there was some bad fruit there in their lives. So a person could literally point to that and say, see, bad fruit.

I think most of us could also admit to the same thing.

You ever mess up and feel like you were bearing bad fruit?

 

[DeBrite1]

Hello DeBrite1 and welcome to the forum.

You said.......


I think what is being said here, is in the lines of..........
Hebrews 2:3-4
V.3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard [him];
V.4 God also bearing [them] witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

The Apostles, who were used to pen the Word of God, were given these signs to confirm that what they were giving the Church, was God’s Holy Word.

The test for preachers today, is to judge them by their fruit.

Hi Stilllearning,

Thanks for the warm welcome.
The issue I have with the question is that if you agree with it, it sorely means that you do not believe in the power of healing or any of the other spiritual gifts.

Again you mentioned that we shall see 'the works' preacher by the fruits they bear.
This statement is only true if the bearing is ONLY works and nothing else.

Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe in my name.....

My conclusion is that signs are still to be expected. If they are there we praise the Lord and if they are not, we still praise Him. To believe that the togues were only for the early church is.... unbelievable (for me at least).

 

[stilllearning]

Hello again preacher4truth

When Jesus talks about bearing fruit, He always talks about bearing either good fruit or bad bruit...........
Matthew 12:33-36
V.33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
V.34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
V.35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
V.36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

A good tree can not bring forth bad fruit.
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Also, this fruit isn’t talking about good things or bad things: It’s talking about the right Gospel or the wrong gospel......
Galatians 1:8-9
V.8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
V.9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

There is no in-between.

As I have told people before, being a New Testament fruit inspector, is never judging the amount of fruit, but the “kind” of fruit.

Not Judging a preacher or teacher by how much he does, but by the Gospel he preaches while he is doing it.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi DeBrite1

You said.......

“The issue I have with the question is that if you agree with it, it sorely means that you do not believe in the power of healing or any of the other spiritual gifts.”

This is a man’s list, so I don’t wholeheartedly agree with everything on it.

As for this 10th question; It is to determine if the prospective Church your visiting, has any Charismatic or Pentecostal tendencies.
(And for that purpose I think that it is a good question.)
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As for believing in the power of healing; Every Christian, who does any praying at all, believes in the power of healing, because over the years the Lord has answered my healing prayers for myself and others hundreds of times.
(But should a local Church, make “healing”, the central theme of their existence?) NO!

Because what good is it to heal somebodies cancer, then send them off to die and go to hell one of these days.
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And as for....”or any of the other spiritual gifts”.
I suppose you are talking about those “sign gifts”, that are talked about in 1Corinthians:
If that is the case, the Bible says, that they have fallen away....
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
V.8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.
V.9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
V.10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

That which is perfect, is the completed(canonized), Word of God.
When the Church got this in their hands, they didn’t need these sign gifts any longer.
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You also said.......

“Again you mentioned that we shall see 'the works' preacher by the fruits they bear.
This statement is only true if the bearing is ONLY works and nothing else.
Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe in my name.....”

As I said to preacher4truth, in my previous post: This fruit, is taking about the particular Gospel message, that comes out of a preachers heart.
If it’s the right Gospel, than it’s good fruit. But if it’s the wrong Gospel than it’s bad fruit.

The Scripture you refer to in Mark, is again talking about how the Church, will be able to identify the Lord’s Apostles, and therefore those writings that are truly from Him.

As for judging a preacher today, by “signs”: Jesus warned us not to do that........
Matthew 24:23-24
V.23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
V.24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

and

Matthew 12:38-39
V.38 ¶ Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
V.39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
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Lastly you said........

“My conclusion is that signs are still to be expected. If they are there we praise the Lord and if they are not, we still praise Him. To believe that the togues were only for the early church is.... unbelievable (for me at least).”

Well the true Biblical gift of tongues, has not been seen in the Church, for about 2000 years, but I suppose that if God wanted to supernaturally give me the capability of speaking in a language that I hadn’t learned, He could.

But if He did, I wouldn’t let anyone know about it, so as not to detract from the Gospel message.

 

[preacher4truth]

Hello again preacher4truth

When Jesus talks about bearing fruit, He always talks about bearing either good fruit or bad bruit...........
Matthew 12:33-36
V.33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.
V.34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
V.35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
V.36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

A good tree can not bring forth bad fruit.
--------------------------------------------------
Also, this fruit isn’t talking about good things or bad things: It’s talking about the right Gospel or the wrong gospel......
Galatians 1:8-9
V.8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
V.9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

There is no in-between.

As I have told people before, being a New Testament fruit inspector, is never judging the amount of fruit, but the “kind” of fruit.

Not Judging a preacher or teacher by how much he does, but by the Gospel he preaches while he is doing it.

I understand these things brother.

I simply made my statements as fodder to feed our thoughts, not as questioning to what it all means as in a search for truth and an easy answer from any one source.

And it is not easy and pat.

The more we learn, the less we know, and the more we ask...as we draw closer to the Infinite Omniscient God, with Whom we have to do.

The OT examples I refer to, coupled with this NT truth, is something to fathom and to seek answers to.

There is much more to this. Jesus who spake these things, is the same God in the OT who knew all truth and knows all truth, being Himself Truth, and has metioned this in the NT for us to search out and understand.

:thumbs:

- Blessings

 

[jbh28]

Please, stop misrepresenting my position.
Note: What I said in post #41.
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jbh28, also goes to a KJVO Church, but you never misrepresent him like this.

Correction: I go to a church that uses the KJV for preaching and teaching. We are not kjvo in the sense that we teach that the KJV is the only version. We just decided(well they actually as I voted against that measure ) to only use the KJV. I do think it's a good idea for a church to have a standard to use for the preaching; at least for consistency sake. I bring an ESV with me, but some people want to have the version that is being read from. We are not KJVO. My Pastor reads the NKJV for his daily reading. The church gave my wife a Schofield ESV after she graduated from college.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

 

[annsni]

Correction: I go to a church that uses the KJV for preaching and teaching. We are not kjvo in the sense that we teach that the KJV is the only version. We just decided(well they actually as I voted against that measure ) to only use the KJV. I do think it's a good idea for a church to have a standard to use for the preaching; at least for consistency sake. I bring an ESV with me, but some people want to have the version that is being read from. We are not KJVO. My Pastor reads the NKJV for his daily reading. The church gave my wife a Schofield ESV after she graduated from college.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

So stilllearning misrepresented you??