It is a parallel comparison. If someone believes they must do something besides trusting Jesus, they are not saved. It is 100% insurmountable. If they don't believe that Jesus is capable of securing their salvation, without anything else, then they are going to Hell. That's pretty insurmountable to me.
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A question of authority
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It is a parallel comparison. If someone believes they must do something besides trusting Jesus, they are not saved. It is 100% insurmountable. If they don't believe that Jesus is capable of securing their salvation, without anything else, then they are going to Hell. That's pretty insurmountable to me.
Oh really? Then we should recall all our missionaries because everyone in the whole world is saved. We have to do nothing at all--just be born and we're members of the Kingdom.
Yes, I've been a Baptist all my life. I'm a deacon in my church and very few of them believe in baptismal regeneration. However, over the 40+ years I've been there, a few have come over to my way of thinking. Actually, very few in my church know what they believe except they all have faith in Jesus Christ. You could ask 100 of them about our statement of faith and only 4 or 5 of the older members would even know we have one.
Man, you make yourself out to be smaller and smaller with each post. I can't believe you would have the audacity to make this kind of statement.
We all have idols in our hearts. We all trust in things other than Christ, at least implicitly. The salvific act of Christ is quite stronger than those other idols we harbor in our hearts.
Jesus is capable of doing anything He wants to do but He told us we would be judged by our deeds--and I believe Him. Do you? And frankly you're taking a lot of liberty with scripture by that statement.
Thanks for the insult! I'm sure glad you aren't able to engage in rational debate without resulting to insults. I'm not sure if I'd enjoy debating with you if you didn't insult me.
I don't trust in any thing, person, act, or anything else besides Jesus for my salvation. It is true that all of us have things we trust in day to day. One of my downfalls is that I trust in myself far too much when bad things happen, when I should trust more in Jesus' ability to comfort me. That trust I put in myself, however, has nothing to do with salvation. For salvation I trust only Jesus.
If trust is placed anywhere else besides Jesus, salvation isn't taking place. You can say that makes me a "smaller" person, or whatever, but it's just the simple truth.
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Speaking of Scripture. Please provide the Scripture you are speaking of when you say Jesus told us we would be judged by our deeds. I'll answer directly on the Scripture you provide.
It wasn't an insult. I was simply letting you know what your manner of argument says about you to the rest of us.
Alive in Christ
New Member
Zenas...
1) The Ethiopian Unuch requested that he be water baptised. He was told..."If you believe with all your heart".
The condition was that he had to already be a believer. A christian. Born from above.
2) The Phillipian jailer was interested in being saved. He enquired and was told "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"
The condition was that he had to already be a believer, allready born from above.
3) During the encounter ar Cornelious's home, it was said..."who can forbid water that these should be baptised, seeing as they have recieved the Holy Spirit just as we have"
The condition was that they had to already be believers, born from above.
In all of these cases these ones were saved prior to water baptism. Water baptism followed as a "picture" of the new birth that had already occured prior to water baptism.
Zenas, no Baptist believes what you just posted. You are not a Baptist are you? Are you also COC? Can you be honest with us?
Jesus never taught we would be judged by our deeds, however, every false cult and false religion do teach that concept. It is not a Christian teaching. Christianity teaches that we are saved by grace through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any one should boast (Eph.2:8,9).
Grace has nothing to do with works. They are opposed to each other.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:6)
--If it is by grace then it is not by works; if it is by works then it is not by grace. The two cannot co-exist together. That is why baptism (a work) cannot save. It cannot be a requirement for salvation. It is a work of man. Man does it and man receives it. God is not involved, except that He commands it, as he commands us to pray, witness, study and read His Word, etc. He commands us, as believers, to do many things. But baptism is not a command given to an unbeliever; it is given to a believer--to someone who has already come to Christ. It is not a requirement for salvation.
Grace and works cannot co-exist together. They are opposed to each other. Find out the definition of grace and you find out why.
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
And, I am *still* trying to figure out WHO and WHAT he was referring to!
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Agreed! Amen!
But, since this thread has drifted so far afield of it's original post...
I can't resist throwing a little fuel on the current fire...
While our works are not required for salvation they will be tried by fire to see what quality they are. Wood, Hay, Stubble or Gold, Silver and Precious Stones.
This is the paradox we have, and why so many get caught up in Works Based Issues.
Once you get striving in any Spiritual Endeavor, with an eye towards Excellence, it is all too easy to forget the Why and focus on the doing.
I think many people start out doing good works because they are Christians.
Then lose their focus on Jesus and start focusing on the Work they are doing.
Hillsongs has a line in a Song that says, "We lay down our cause for the cross"...
Too often OUR CAUSE Eclipses The CROSS...
The original poster on this thread is church of Christ. That's the entire reason for his post. The church of Christ feels that the New Testament is the only thing we need to worry about. We occasionally get cult members that come through here and attempt to proselytize their cult. Seems like that is what the original poster was doing.
preacher4truth
Active Member
You can see through the original posters intent.
It's funny how they think they are throwing some sort of proverbial wrench into our theology.
With the unscriptural views of Faith Regeneration and Baptismal Regeneration, I am glad to be under, by His working, Spirit Regeneration.
Excellent discernment Wade.
BTW, I presented these 3 views to a SS class. Everyone, every single one chose Faith Regeneration as theirs. It just shows how much faith is misunderstood. I presented them, to be fair, with Spirit Regeneration, then the light came on in their minds. They will never forget now how and by Whom they (we) are regenerated. Also, 2 salvations came as a result of this, after a few weeks of teaching and staying on this.
:thumbs:
It's funny how they think they are throwing some sort of proverbial wrench into our theology.
With the unscriptural views of Faith Regeneration and Baptismal Regeneration, I am glad to be under, by His working, Spirit Regeneration.
Excellent discernment Wade.
BTW, I presented these 3 views to a SS class. Everyone, every single one chose Faith Regeneration as theirs. It just shows how much faith is misunderstood. I presented them, to be fair, with Spirit Regeneration, then the light came on in their minds. They will never forget now how and by Whom they (we) are regenerated. Also, 2 salvations came as a result of this, after a few weeks of teaching and staying on this.
:thumbs:
Matthew 7:21
Revelation 20:12-13
Matthew 16:27
John 5:29
Romans 2:6
2 Corinthians 5:10
Not one of us look at the "idol" in our heart as the source of our salvation yet there are MANY that will stand before Jesus Christ at judgment and say "I should go to heaven because I was baptized just like you said." and that will just not work. We are saved because of what Christ did for us - not what we did. Baptism is an action AFTER saving faith. It is a response in obedience to Christ's command. It is not something we have to do in order to be saved.
We have a young man at our church who was saved a couple of weeks ago. He has not yet been baptized but this week we had a worship team come from our home church who had members tell my husband that they KNEW John had come to the Lord because they just saw a complete difference in his countenance and worship. They actually came to my hubby and asked him "Did John get saved??" because it was that obvious. Now the next step is baptism and we're trying to figure out how we want to do that but we know without a doubt that John is saved and heaven-bound and when he's ready, he will be baptized by my husband.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Originally Posted by matt wade
If you believe baptism is necessary for salvation, then it is a work. A work is anything that you believe you need to do on your own. Jesus already accomplished everything necessary for your salvation.
If you believe baptism is necessary for salvation, then it is a work. A work is anything that you believe you need to do on your own. Jesus already accomplished everything necessary for your salvation.
Oh really? Then we should recall all our missionaries because everyone in the whole world is saved. We have to do nothing at all--just be born and we're members of the Kingdom.
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This speaks of the Father's will, not of works. What do we know of the Father's will? Let's look at the Scripture.
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
So, the will of the Father is that we believe in Jesus and are saved.
Let's take the verses you provide in context and read verse 15.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
So, God judges all based upon their works, according to the verses you provided. But, we get to verse 15 and find that if our name is in the Book of Life, it doesn't matter what the judgment was! Praise God that if our name is in the Book of Life we are saved!
The Scripture speaks of reward here. You'll see no argument from me that the saved receive rewards for there works on this earth. Praise God that I'll get to cast my rewards at Jesus' feet one day!
Just a couple of verses prior, we are told how to have eternal life. It's interesting you don't mention that verse.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life."
The verse you speak of is talking about the result of our salvation, not a an act that saves us.
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
If we are saved, our life will produce good works.
You miss the context of this verse. The context is that this verse, and the surrounding verses, are aimed at the Jew that thinks they can work themselves into heaven. These verses point out that in order to work to heaven, you need to be perfect. It's the same lesson that was taught throughout the Old Testament. We can't work ourselves to heaven, because we aren't perfect. That's exactly why God sent His Son for us!
Really? You need to study up on what the judgement seat of Christ is.
None of these Scriptures teach that salvation is by our works, or that ultimately our salvation will be judged by the works that we do. That is a heretical view.
No Baptist holds to such a view.
As no Baptist holds to the view of Baptismal regeneration.
So, I ask you again, are you truly a Baptist, or are you COC?
Your beliefs do not line up with those of a Baptist.
I have read up on it and I don't buy into it. There will be one judgment for all--some will go to Heaven and some will go to Hell. This belief about two or three different judgments is nonsense promulgated by those buy into OSAS.