What matters is keeping the Commandments of God

[Chowmah]

However, I have learned that messianics tend to distort scripture to make their point.

Am i a Messy? Ive been wondering what i was. Please show me the scripture i distorted. Please be specific.

 

[Chowmah]

I don't keep the 4th the way you believe it should be and I can assure you that the Holy Spirit dwells in me.

You dont keep the sabbath the way i believe it should be? I assure you patharris i did not write the book. I simply believe whats written in the scriptures

2COR.11[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or IF YE RECEIVE ANOTHER SPIRIT, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might well bear with him.

Be careful

 

[Dr. Walter]

Rom.5 [5] And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Says no such thing. Says "the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost". Your not going to stop loving once you recieve the Holy Spirit.

Can you read? Try reading Romans 5:5 again. It explicitly says the Holy Spirit is the source of love that is shed abroad in our hearts. Gal. 5:19 tells us that love is the fruit of the Spirit. 1 John 4:7 says that love is the evidence of new birth by the Spirit. Hence, love is a product of the Spirit and keeping commandments is a product of love. Get the order (1) The holy Spirit; (2) love; (3) keeping commandments. Don't respond until you carefully read what I have said and what the scriptures say.

 

[Chowmah]

Get the order (1) The holy Spirit; (2) love; (3) keeping commandments. Don't respond until you carefully read what I have said and what the scriptures say.

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;

Yeah, i see the order the bible claims. I also see your order. Why do they differ

 

[Dr. Walter]

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;

Yeah, i see the order the bible claims. I also see your order. Why do they differ

Because John 14:15 is talking to saved people. The Holy Spirit to them is "another" comforter that takes the place of the comforter they already had as saved people. Salvation is not the context. Those in John 13-17 were baptized believers who already had partaken of the Lord's Supper. That is not the description of lost unregenerate people. Furthermore, even in John 14:15 love precedes both the keeping of commandments and the reception of the Holy Spirit -(1) If ye love me; (2) keep my commandments; (3) shall give you another comforter. Get the order?

Here is your problem. Anyone can take scripture out of context and create any doctrine they want and that is exactly what you are doing with John 14-17.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.[16] AND I WILL PRAY THE FATHER, AND HE SHALL GIVE YOU ANOTHER COMFORTER, that he may abide with you for ever;

Yeah, i see the order the bible claims. I also see your order. Why do they differ

GE:

There is NO difference in or of 'order'. You create 'difference' by your 'logic'.

I picked this up somewhere...
"Logic is a defined process for going wrong with confidence and certainty.
CF Kettering"

 

[Chowmah]

ACTS 2 [38] Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

Well...logically speaking

I see an order here also

 

[Dr. Walter]

ACTS 2 [38] Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

Well...logically speaking

I see an order here also

Your whole theological defense is based entirely upon pitting scriptures against scriptures. John 14 is talking to saved persons and yet now you are trying to take a text from a context that is talking about lost persons to defend your use of a text (Jn. 14) that is talking to saved persons. How much more messed up can you get?

In addition, Acts 2:38 does not say a word about "love" or "keeping commandments"!!!! Like I said, your method of interpretation can invent any doctrine you want to invent as your method pits scripture against scripture, jerks texts out of their context and then uses them as you please. The Spirit of God is not leading any person that deals with scripture the way you are dealing with scripture "another spirit" (2 Cor. 11:4).

 

[Chowmah]

Here is your problem. Anyone can take scripture out of context and create any doctrine they want and that is exactly what you are doing with John 14-17.

OK Doctor
Heres a timeline for the pit. What scriptures have i taken out of context? Why is the doctrine of these scriptures just the opposite of what you preach

PSALM 94 [11] The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

Teach man out of thy law, until pit digged for the wicked. The bottomless pit?

PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me? [85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

They who are not after the law have dug pits and ALL thy commandments are faithful...the 4th?

PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession.

Those who turn from hearing the law will fall into pit they themselves dug.

PSALM 7 [15] He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; BECAUSE THEY HAVE TRANSGRESSED THE LAWS, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[17] Fear, and THE PIT, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.[18] And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall FALL INTO THE PIT; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.[22] And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Well, heres the end of the story. The DAY OF THE LORD. Those that practice transgressing the law of God will end up in the pit and scripture says in Revelation that those that keep the commandments of God (Exodus 20) and have the testimony of Jesus will end up in the Kingdom. Those in the pit will be visited after many days. A thousand years maybe?

REV.20 [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of THE BOTTOMLESS PIT and a great chain in his hand.[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

YUP. A thousand years. Looks like those that do not observe to keep Gods 10 commandments will be having some company in the pit. Kinda makes Saddams wormhole look rather appealing.

 

[Chowmah]

In addition, Acts 2:38 does not say a word about "love" or "keeping commandments"!!!!

ACTS 2 [38] Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

It might not say keep the commandments but what in the wide wide world of sports do you think you are to repent of? Sin is the transgression of the law. What you say about me is so ironical. You take one liners out of the book of Galatians which is speaking of circumcision and apply the one liners to the 10 commandments. You will not find the word commandments in the whole book of Galatians. You will however find circumcision mentioned in one form or another 16 times in that very short book.

 

[Dr. Walter]

OK Doctor
Heres a timeline for the pit. What scriptures have i taken out of context? Why is the doctrine of these scriptures just the opposite of what you preach

PSALM 94 [11] The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.

Teach man out of thy law, until pit digged for the wicked. The bottomless pit?

PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me? [85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.

They who are not after the law have dug pits and ALL thy commandments are faithful...the 4th?

PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession.

Those who turn from hearing the law will fall into pit they themselves dug.

PSALM 7 [15] He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.

ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; BECAUSE THEY HAVE TRANSGRESSED THE LAWS, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[17] Fear, and THE PIT, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.[18] And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall FALL INTO THE PIT; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.[22] And they shall be gathered together, AS PRISONERS ARE GATHERED IN THE PIT, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

Well, heres the end of the story. The DAY OF THE LORD. Those that practice transgressing the law of God will end up in the pit and scripture says in Revelation that those that keep the commandments of God (Exodus 20) and have the testimony of Jesus will end up in the Kingdom. Those in the pit will be visited after many days. A thousand years maybe?

REV.20 [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of THE BOTTOMLESS PIT and a great chain in his hand.[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

YUP. A thousand years. Looks like those that do not observe to keep Gods 10 commandments will be having some company in the pit. Kinda makes Saddams wormhole look rather appealing.

You have already been shown how you have mishandled John 14 and Acts 2:38 and it is so obvious that you do not even attempt to respond but change the subject and proceed to mishandle the scriptures above. Why should I respond to another mishandled groups of scriptures when you don't even have the descency to deal with the evidence placed squarely in your face for John 14 and Acts? You will simply HOP and JUMP to other texts jerking them out of context and continue your binge and so there is no end of this mess.

I will give you one hint on your first text above that you are abusing it. Men "dig" the pit and no man digs Gehenna or the bottomless pit.

 

[Chowmah]

You have already been shown how you have mishandled John 14 and Acts 2:38 and it is so obvious that you do not even attempt to respond but change the subject and proceed to mishandle the scriptures above. Why should I respond to another mishandled groups of scriptures when you don't even have the descency to deal with the evidence placed squarely in your face for John 14 and Acts?

Ive already responded to Acts 2 and to John 14. They say what they say. When you say they dont really say what they say, what am i to say to that? The scriptures themselves already say what you say they dont say.

 

[Chowmah]

Your whole theological defense is based entirely upon pitting scriptures against scriptures.

Just found this. Wow...sublimination

I now see why the bottomless pit popped into my head

 

[Dr. Walter]

Ive already responded to Acts 2 and to John 14. They say what they say. When you say they dont really say what they say, what am i to say to that? The scriptures themselves already say what you say they dont say.

No, you have not responded to either! In John 14 love precedes keeping the commandments and he is talking to those already saved. In Acts 2 there is no mention of love, or keeping of the commandments and he is talking to the lost. You cannot take a text that is speaking to the lost and use it to defend a text that is speaking to the saved.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Just found this. Wow...sublimination

I now see why the bottomless pit popped into my head

I think you have revealed your source of theology - whatever pops into your head.

 

[Chowmah]

I think you have revealed your source of theology - whatever pops into your head.

Yeah..the Holy Spirit is wonderful. Did i spell popped right good doctor? Wasnt sure

 

[Chowmah]

I think you have revealed your source of theology - whatever pops into your head.

1 JOHN 2 [26] These things have I written unto you CONCERNING THEM THAT SEDUCE YOU. [27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, AND YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

What man taught you your theology?

 

[Dr. Walter]

1 JOHN 2 [26] These things have I written unto you CONCERNING THEM THAT SEDUCE YOU. [27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, AND YE NEED NOT THAT ANY MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

What man taught you your theology?

Proverbs 26:4

 

[Chowmah]

Hey Doc

I found a few scriptures that say your past sins are forgivin

2 PETER1 [4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;[6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;[7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.[8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.[9] BUT HE THAT LACKETH THESE THINGS IS BLIND, AND CANNOT SEE AFAR OFF, AND HATH FORGOTTEN THAT HE WAS PURGED FROM HIS OLD SINS.

ROMANS 3 [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

JOHN 5 [11] He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk. [12] Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?[13] And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.[14] Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, BEHOLD, THOU ART MADE WHOLE: SIN NO MORE, LEST A WORSE THING COME UNTO THEE.

PSALM 55 [17] Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice. [18] He hath delivered my soul in peace from the battle that was against me: for there were many with me. [19] God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.

PSALM 68 [20] He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto God the Lord belong the issues from death. [21] But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

Could you show me the scriptures or even 1 scripture that says your future sins are forgivin as i hear the many claim


PROVERBS 28{9}

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

O....................................
Well, heres the end of the story. The DAY OF THE LORD. Those that practice transgressing the law of God will end up in the pit and scripture says in Revelation that those that keep the commandments of God (Exodus 20) and have the testimony of Jesus will end up in the Kingdom. ..............

GE:

First for those over-assured in their keeping of God's Commandments: Are you (singular or plural) "practicing" keeping of "the law of God" --- "practicing" keeping implying PERFECT "practicing" keeping of the Law of God?

In other words, are you never "practicing transgression of the law of God"?

Dare say yes and prove you yourself are "practicing transgression of the law of God".