2 Peter 3:9

[MB]

lol...

Not really, you confuse it, but you being a fellow Clevelander and all, I'll pass on it.

All of the saved are elect. That's a plain fact.

Hope we can be cool or remain cool about it. We all have different angles on it.

It's really simple. Since Salvation was sent unto the Gentiles every man on earth has the ability to be saved.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

There are only two kinds of people in the world. The elect Jews and the Gentiles. If Salvation is sent unto the Gentiles as it was to the Jews. Whom ever hears it and believes it is elect. No one is elect until they are in Christ.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Many do not want to see those two words when speaking of election.
MB

 

[The Archangel]

It's really simple. Since Salvation was sent unto the Gentiles every man on earth has the ability to be saved.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

There are only two kinds of people in the world. The elect Jews and the Gentiles. If Salvation is sent unto the Gentiles as it was to the Jews. Whom ever hears it and believes it is elect. No one is elect until they are in Christ.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Many do not want to see those two words when speaking of election.
MB

The problem, of course, in your post is that you have created an anachronism. You are implying that we come to Christ and then, as a result, are elect. But the text clearly states that God's choosing action, or Election, happens "Before the foundation of the world." So, textually, we come to Christ because we are already elect.

The Archangel

 

[webdog]

The problem, of course, in your post is that you have created an anachronism. You are implying that we come to Christ and then, as a result, are elect. But the text clearly states that God's choosing action, or Election, happens "Before the foundation of the world." So, textually, we come to Christ because we are already elect.

The Archangel

Fact is, only believers are elect whether if it is a future, present or past event.

 

[preacher4truth]

It's really simple. Since Salvation was sent unto the Gentiles every man on earth has the ability to be saved.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

There are only two kinds of people in the world. The elect Jews and the Gentiles. If Salvation is sent unto the Gentiles as it was to the Jews. Whom ever hears it and believes it is elect. No one is elect until they are in Christ.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Many do not want to see those two words when speaking of election.
MB

Not even close. Man does not possess the ability to be saved. So to say "every man on the earth has the ability to be saved" makes him his own god. This is not well thought out, and is an erroneous statement. Man has none of this ability.

God has the ability to save, and He alone.

As The Arch Angel has said, we were in Him before the foundation of the world, so the logical conclusion is we come to Him because we are already elect.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Fact is, only believers are elect whether if it is a future, present or past event.

okay...now the question is, how do you define the word "believers" against the text in Revelation 7:9 which says :

After this I beheld , and, lo , a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

[webdog]

okay...now the question is, how do you define the word "believers" against the text in Revelation 7:9 which says :

After this I beheld , and, lo , a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Easy...they are the "great number" from all of the nations, kindreds, etc.

 

[psalms109:31]

Procreation

okay...now the question is, how do you define the word "believers" against the text in Revelation 7:9 which says :

After this I beheld , and, lo , a great multitude, which no man could number , of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Matthew 28:
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Did they not come from us doing what God told us to do?

 

[quantumfaith]

One more time, are any of the saved not elect? It's real simple.

Is there anyone in hell right now, for whom Christ did not die?

 

[quantumfaith]

Fact is, only believers are elect whether if it is a future, present or past event.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[webdog]

Not even close. Man does not possess the ability to be saved. So to say "every man on the earth has the ability to be saved" makes him his own god. This is not well thought out, and is an erroneous statement. Man has none of this ability.

If you qualified this with "left to their own devices" I'm in full agreement. However, He has not done this. He did the reaching out to man in order to be saved.

Paul addressing pagans in Acts 17 " From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

 

[preacher4truth]

Is there anyone in hell right now, for whom Christ did not die?

Fact is, there are no elect there. From that, you can answer your own question.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

Fact is, there are no elect there. From that, you can answer your own question.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Preacher4truth:

That was a good answer, but not question. :thumbs:

Could that be, because there are no "believers and recievers" there as to why no elect make their abode there?

 

[quantumfaith]

It's really simple. Since Salvation was sent unto the Gentiles every man on earth has the ability to be saved.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

There are only two kinds of people in the world. The elect Jews and the Gentiles. If Salvation is sent unto the Gentiles as it was to the Jews. Whom ever hears it and believes it is elect. No one is elect until they are in Christ.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Many do not want to see those two words when speaking of election.
MB

I appreciate and like your "take" on this. :thumbs:

 

[preacher4truth]

Preacher4truth:

That was a good answer, but not question. :thumbs:

Could that be, because there are no "believers and recievers" there as to why no elect make their abode there?

Yes, thank you. That's why it didn't end with a "?".

I also had to get you off of post #666. That was a close one!! :thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Put me down for....Yes , his desire is that none should perish.

Amen, Brother!! I don't think God will ever delight in the eternal punishment of the sinner, but because of their unbelief, they have to go there. That being said, if God doen't delight in this(I know the C's feel the same on this), then His offering them salvation is true. They just failed to repent and accept this Gift.

i am I am's!!

Willis

 

[The Archangel]

Fact is, only believers are elect whether if it is a future, present or past event.

This statement is outside of the scope of the current discussion, especially my comments to MB.

The Archangel

 

[pinoybaptist]

Easy...they are the "great number" from all of the nations, kindreds, etc.

right...but the dictionary defines "believe", relevant to what we are discussing, as :

to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so: Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
–verb (used with object)
2. to have confidence or faith in the truth of (a positive assertion, story, etc.); give credence to.

3. to have confidence in the assertions of (a person).


the keyword is ALL in the verse....unless the Apostles and those who went into ministry after them are able to be everywhere at the same time (omnipresent) and not limited by time, space, and matter as to movement like normal human beings are, then there wouldn't be believers in all nations, kindreds, languages, etc., because ALL will need to cover even those nations, languages, and kindreds that historically existed in all ages otherwise, as you and yours would contend in another area of doctrine, all is really not all, or..."world" is ALL of the world, and not just God's elect's world.

 

[Jarthur001]

How many people die each day?

It is estimated that approximately 250,000 to 300,000 people die each day

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_die_a_day#ixzz18DIGjVxo​

If Gods full desire is to save all of mankind, and each day over 250,000 people die, and only half of them are believers, the longer Christ waits before He comes back, the more people go to Hell.

If only half of the people go to Hell, that would mean that 875,000 will go to Hell this week.

In one year that number grows to 45,500,000 that go to Hell.

I'm now 52 years old. In my life time that would move the number to 2.3 billion people that have gone to Hell.

Now I have never met one Christian that believes half of the people are going to Heaven, so this 2.3 billion is much higher by most peoples standards

So if, his desire is to save all of mankind, he could at any moment come back and END this MASS of people going to HELL. If indeed that is his desire....Does he want to save all people, but does not have the power to?

If fact...Could God have saved all of mankind at any time in history? Before Cain was born...could he have saved all of mankind? Yes....

If that was his desire, he could have done it.....but He did not....now did he?

Now fast forward......

All non-believers stands before His throne. They now believe. Not by faith but by sight they believe. The edge of Hell stands to the left of them. They can see the flames. They cry out...I BELIEVE GOD>>>>I BELIEVE!!!

If Gods desire is to not have ANY go to Hell, and they do indeed believe just as they claim...

Does God send them to Hell??

 

[psalms109:31]

Truth

John 5:
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

The message through us who are called should be filling the earth.

 

[Jerome]

Now I have never met one Christian that believes half of the people are going to Heaven

"I believe there will be more in Heaven than in hell. If anyone asks me why I think so, I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to "have the preeminence," and I cannot conceive how He could have the preeminence if there are to be more in the dominions of Satan than in Paradise. Moreover, I have never read that there is to be in hell a great multitude, which no man could number." —Charles Spurgeon