Sola Scriptura?

[quantumfaith]

Yup... equivocation and begging the question.

But that doesn't mean that, pragmatically, it doesn't work out that way. I know of no systematics that are infallible. I'd say that the flaw in your logic comes in the first statement and if I were to defeat the proposition that is where I would start. Systematic theology SHOULD be an expression of biblical truth, not something created by man.

SHOULD is correct. But the fact that men are involved leads us to know that no systematic theology is beyond reproach. As believers we only hold scripture to meet this standard. Do you not agree?

 

[glfredrick]

SHOULD is correct. But the fact that men are involved leads us to know that no systematic theology is beyond reproach. As believers we only hold scripture to meet this standard. Do you not agree?

Of course. I said as much above, and above that as well.

But, theology can stil be "true" even if not "inspired" to the level of Scripture.

 

[MB]

This OP is concerning what?
Your topic is a straw man, signify that you're losing.

Loosing LOL!
This isn't a game of who wins the debate. This is an discussion about Sola Scriptura. If you believe in Sola Scriptura then you believe as I do because the term means scripture alone. That is with out the outside influences and other reading materials.

Yep, I have expressed a belief in it. You're right there. Then your fingers get ahead of facts on the rest of your accusations. I never laid ANY claim to all you accuse of about Calvinism and my beliefs. Yet this is the norm for you.

I haven't made any accusations towards you or Calvinism. I've merely stated the truth. Truth is what you name implies you preach and if it's Calvinism then you are not preaching the truth because it isn't in scripture.
The reason you haven't offered any proof is because there isn't any.
If the points of Calvinism I mention in my last post were provable every Calvinist on this board would have been more than happy to show that truth. None have.

Many on here would testify my limited and balanced acceptance of some points of Calvinism. I'm not thematic on it. Go take a gander at "What's at Stake?" and see in the OP just how strong my beliefs in Calvinism are.
Anyhow, this OP has to do with whether or not we believe in using other methods and extra biblical works to understand the Scriptures. Something you are against, and which can be cleary seen on the thread this OP came from.

There is only one way man can understand scripture and that is always through God. When I see something I'm unable to comprehend I pray about and God reveals it to me. I am not against other books on theology. I'm against on letting said books to determine what I believe. I don't look to others for answers I depend on God.
Answer me this please. Why accept what men say the answer is. When we have a perfect God who is much more able to help us all understand the answers to our questions? Is it because you're unwilling to wait on the answer from God?

It's unfortunate that you resort to fairy tails and outright mistruths as a comeback. Anyone can take a look at this OP and see where you made up nonsense based on my statement: "Certainly salvation is easy to understand as a babe. But it becomes more complex as we grow. We have more questions. Thus the many volumes of theological works". From this you derived that I use mens works as to grow in grace....as inerrant, and further drivel and lies coming from you in response.

So are you saying that God's word is lacking the answers we need.
Timothy wrote;
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
To what else is there any importance?
This is how simple the scriptures really are. They are the only true answer. This covers all we need to know. But for you God's holy Word doesn't seem to be enough. Why is that?

I mean, this is really sad that a believer resorts to lying.
Pull out your Scriptures and read in Exodus 20, the 9th commandment, about bearing false witness. If you can't comprehend the 9th commandment, grab a commentary to help you. This is exactly what you have done, you bear false witness against me. That you can't admit it tells me more about the person you truly are.
Then, after you humbly admit that you have misrepresented me on here, twice, go take a look at my post "What's at Stake?" and figure it out concerning my stance on Calvinism. My reason for being here is to learn and fellowship. Yours has been to slander, accuse, make false statements and accusations completely unfounded.
I'm here to learn. Not accuse. Nor allow someone who lies, as you do, to deter me from it.

You've just proven that what you accuse me of, you are most guilty of your self. I haven't attack you personally like you have me. You have stated that I'm lying, yet you offer no proof. Your attack against me is uncalled for. All I have done is what I'm suppose to do and that is argue for the truth of Scripture. You sir owe me an apology.
MB

 

[MB]

Well, the blind can't see it, can they? The doctrine of grace is so clearly in the Scripture that it is how I learned it - being in an Arminian church. I was finding Scripture after Scripture that spoke very differently than what I was taught and it was confusing. So I studied more. Wow. What a humbling eye opening that was.

Scripture is clear that God is the initiator from start to finish. That man is dead. Dead man tell no tales - or have the ability to do anything. Christ came and died the death that I should have but instead He did and for some reason, when presented with the Gospel, I responded. I was young - only 7 - but I had an overwhelming desire to follow Christ whereas I did not before. Perseverance of the saints is straight from Scripture - but probably a better word for us to understand the underpinnings of this concept is not perseverance but preservation of the saints. God preserves me because, God knows - there's no way I could hang on to my salvation no matter HOW hard I tried.

The doctrines of grace is absolutely 100% Scripture. There is no question. I praise God that it's up to Him and not me because as much as I try, I could never do anything to satisfy what needs to be done.

If true then answer me this; Why haven't you shown proof instead of asking me "the blind can't see it, can they?" Are you insinuating I'm blind? The truth is that there are none so blind as those that just won't see.
If the doctrines of grace were 100% scripture then you would prove your point instead of blowing hot air.
MB

 

[quantumfaith]

Of course. I said as much above, and above that as well.

But, theology can stil be "true" even if not "inspired" to the level of Scripture.

You are correct it "CAN" be, and that would include the realm of the non-calvinist as well.

Perhaps, I should have said "domain" as you my friend are quite mathematically literate.

 

[webdog]

I have to say I'm shocked that there are 6 people who think it is "dangerous" to read only God's Word on your own So much for the Holy Spirit being able to illuminate a person... :tear:

Ironically, I know some who have employed such a "dangerous" practice...and gave their lives to Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have to say I'm shocked that there are 6 people who think it is "dangerous" to read only God's Word on your own So much for the Holy Spirit being able to illuminate a person... :tear:

Ironically, I know some who have employed such a "dangerous" practice...and gave their lives to Christ.

Webdog,

I agree with you about people having done so, and it led them to salvation.

There are also very many who do the opposite.

I am shocked that you can't see this, nor the point of the poll. Come on bro, you're smarter than this.

For you to make your first statement is to make an absolute truth out of it and deny that it could ever lead someone to dangerous doctrines. Are you then saying that this can never happen?

I have personally seen it happen. Said person would not come to the knowledge of the truth.

For you to be shocked is unfounded, and not thought through.

I am certain there are many other ministers who have witnessed those who would only use Scripture who came up with blasphemous dangerous doctrines.

One man I knew, for instance, actually held Bible Studies at an apartment complex. He quit because he had gotten so scared at what he was coming up with, and yet he embraced false teachings he had come up with on his own using only the KJV. Don't be so shocked brother. It happens.

Take for instance what Harold Camping comes up with out of Scriptures. He certainly isn't arriving at these conclusions with any orthodox extra-biblical writings.



- Blessings

 

[webdog]

Webdog,

I agree with you about people having done so, and it led them to salvation.

There are also very many who do the opposite.

I am shocked that you can't see this, nor the point of the poll. Come on bro, you're smarter than this.

For you to make your first statement is to make an absolute truth out of it and deny that it could ever lead someone to dangerous doctrines. Are you then saying that this can never happen?

I have personally seen it happen. Said person would not come to the knowledge of the truth.

For you to be shocked is unfounded, and not thought through.

I am certain there are many other ministers who have witnessed those who would only use Scripture who came up with blasphemous dangerous doctrines.

One man I knew, for instance, actually held Bible Studies at an apartment complex. He quit because he had gotten so scared at what he was coming up with, and yet he embraced false teachings he had come up with on his own using only the KJV. Don't be so shocked brother. It happens.

Take for instance what Harold Camping comes up with out of Scriptures. He certainly isn't arriving at these conclusions with any orthodox extra-biblical writings.



- Blessings

Based on the wording of that option, I am surprised anyone would vote that..and it was well thought through
Can't say I'm following you when you state "For you to make your first statement is to make an absolute truth out of it and deny that it could ever lead someone to dangerous doctrines.". I simply gave my opinion based on the wording of the poll.
It is never "dangerous" for ANY man to pick up the Word of God on their own. If we are lead by the spirit to do so, we better do it regardless of what any systematic theology might say about it. God's Word does not return void.

 

[preacher4truth]

Based on the wording of that option, I am surprised anyone would vote that..and it was well thought through
It is never "dangerous" for ANY man to pick up the Word of God on their own. If we are lead by the spirit to do so, we better do it regardless of what any systematic theology might say about it. God's Word does not return void.

It'a difficult to word an option to complete perfection given its limitations.

The persons who voted on that simply saw beyond its wording and to its intent and application.

I encourage believers to spend time in the Word. Alone. They also have questions and I direct them to go get some study helps and they do.

On the other hand, I also know that many have developed heresies doing so. I also believe Gods Word will accomplish what it will, and not return void.

But there is more than one side to this whole thing.

We see in Scripture also, warnings of those who add to it, and twist it, to their own destruction. I'm sure you've read this. I'm quite certain there were no systematic theology texts out yet.

:thumbs:

It happens, and it is unfortunate. Do you insist this is impossible and never happens?

 

[webdog]

It happens, and it is unfortunate. Do you insist this is impossible and never happens?

No, but regardless of the outcome it is not dangerous, IMO. I believe it takes outside influence to arrive at false doctrine...I have yet to hear anyone arrive at false doctrine by simply reading Scripture alone with an open mind and heart. Now, some will open a Bible with ulterior motives, but those people have already rejected the truths that have been presented to them by God. I have also seen these same types (atheists) open a Bible looking to disprove it and the Spirit works on them to the point to where they give their hearts to Christ.

Again, it is my stance it is never dangerous to open Scripture. God is so much bigger than our intellect.

 

[preacher4truth]

No, but regardless of the outcome it is not dangerous, IMO. I believe it takes outside influence to arrive at false doctrine...I have yet to hear anyone arrive at false doctrine by simply reading Scripture alone with an open mind and heart. Now, some will open a Bible with ulterior motives, but those people have already rejected the truths that have been presented to them by God. I have also seen these same types (atheists) open a Bible looking to disprove it and the Spirit works on them to the point to where they give their hearts to Christ.

Again, it is my stance it is never dangerous to open Scripture. God is so much bigger than our intellect.

Regardless of the outcome (which is all inclusive) it is not dangerous? OK.

You say "no" then argue it right back to where you were.

Simply because you have never seen it happen doesn't make it not so. Many have witnessed it. I have in many cases. Cults start this way. And they don't have to be mainstream. The following at this apartment complex was a cult.

Another case in point: I had a lady who belonged to my church. Her husband was Scripture only. He would not attend church for God spoke to him directly out of the Bible. He came up with blasphemous doctrines, and went as far as to send his teachings to the college I attended. They threw him out when he came there. Everything he came up with was only from Scripture.

God spoke to him directly out of the Bible alone to come up with these erroneous bizarre teachings. I'm sure you can see this happening without much trouble. This is why I included it in the poll, to see if others have seen it, and obviously some have.

Harold Camping is another plausible example.

BTW, you're preaching irresistible grace.

 

[webdog]

BTW, you're preaching irresistible grace.

If you think that is IG...maybe you are not as reformed as you think

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[psalms109:31]

Scripture

I myself love scripture and use it to see if men are talking from their own heart or from the Spirit.

I love listening to other people, because we all have different gifts and experience that we my see something in scripture others don't.

It is dangerous if we do misunderstand something and don't look at it through every word that comes from the mouth of God.

I believe we shouldn't suffer a witch to live, so let the one with no sin cast the first stone.

 

[annsni]

If true then answer me this; Why haven't you shown proof instead of asking me "the blind can't see it, can they?" Are you insinuating I'm blind? The truth is that there are none so blind as those that just won't see.
If the doctrines of grace were 100% scripture then you would prove your point instead of blowing hot air.
MB

If you've been on this board for any time, or have been alive, you've seen the proof. You just choose to turn away from it. That's OK. The Spirit will work on you.

 

[preacher4truth]

If you've been on this board for any time, or have been alive, you've seen the proof. You just choose to turn away from it. That's OK. The Spirit will work on you.

Absolutely true, he's seen it, and turns his ears away from hearing it.