Are Baptists Calvinists Or Arminianists?

[quantumfaith]

It's not a John Calvin at all, and you know it. That "quote" is so bogus it smells all the way to S.K.

Got if from the quote site "thinkexist" Check it out yourself.. If it is not, well no harm done, if it is, then you owe me a nod (apology).

BTW: What is s.k.?

 

[quantumfaith]

It's not a John Calvin at all, and you know it. That "quote" is so bogus it smells all the way to S.K.

Oh and BTW, I am greatly "miffed" that you insinuate I would intentionally misquote. That is seriously immature on YOUR part.

 

[annsni]

To be clear, although I wear the label Calvinist, I am not a follower of Calvin.

I agree with many things taught by John and Charles Wesley, but I am not a Wesleyan.

Luther got some things right, with which I agree, but I am not a Lutheran.

But I agree with everything John taught, so I can comfortably call myself a Baptist.

Where's that "like" button? I guess I'll just do this instead. :thumbs:

 

[Rippon]

Got if from the quote site "thinkexist" Check it out yourself.. If it is not, well no harm done, if it is, then you owe me a nod (apology).

No documentation -- no sources.

BTW: What is s.k.?

South Korea.

 

[Rippon]

Oh and BTW, I am greatly "miffed" that you insinuate I would intentionally misquote. That is seriously immature on YOUR part.

You accurately quoted a made-up quote.

 

[annsni]

Got if from the quote site "thinkexist" Check it out yourself.. If it is not, well no harm done, if it is, then you owe me a nod (apology).

BTW: What is s.k.?

I've been searching for the history of that quote and so far, I've not found anything other than a gazillion people saying he said it. Can anyone find out where he said it? Is it in print? Was it oral? Honestly, most of his other quotes are able to be traced but not this one. I wonder why? To me it sounds awfully suspect.

 

[Rippon]

For instance he wrote "the Roman Catholic Church held the keys to Salvation".

That is so bogus. What is it with these non-Cals that come up with this junk?

He also wrote;
"There is no Salvation apart from the church"

Could you please document your quotes?

Calvin was inspired by Augustine. Not God as men have told me.
MB

Calvin was saturated by Scripture. Augustine was a godly man who greatly influenced Calvin. However, Calvin freely disagreed with him on a number of occasions.

 

[quantumfaith]

I've been searching for the history of that quote and so far, I've not found anything other than a gazillion people saying he said it. Can anyone find out where he said it? Is it in print? Was it oral? Honestly, most of his other quotes are able to be traced but not this one. I wonder why? To me it sounds awfully suspect.

Well then, the best we can ALL say is we know NOT for certain. Just be intellectually honest that it is as possible that he did say it, as it is he did not say it.

But I understand your sensitivity, being of the "reformed theology" camp.

But my next question, why is it of ANY import to you, the quote had nothing to do with the Servetus affair, just an ironic oddity.

 

[quantumfaith]

That is so bogus. What is it with these non-Cals that come up with this junk?



Could you please document your quotes?



Calvin was saturated by Scripture. Augustine was a godly man who greatly influenced Calvin. However, Calvin freely disagreed with him on a number of occasions.

It is a given that Augustine was a great theologian, but it should also not be forgotten that he was heavily influenced by Manicheism.

 

[annsni]

That is so bogus. What is it with these non-Cals that come up with this junk?



Could you please document your quotes?



Calvin was saturated by Scripture. Augustine was a godly man who greatly influenced Calvin. However, Calvin freely disagreed with him on a number of occasions.

I just tried to google - calvin "the Roman Catholic Church held the keys to Salvation" and not one result showed up.

Then I searched - calvin "there is no salvation apart from the church" and found out that is actually from Cyprian and not at all attributed to Calvin.

The last quote is just hearsay - not worthy of even bothering with.

 

[quantumfaith]

I've been searching for the history of that quote and so far, I've not found anything other than a gazillion people saying he said it. Can anyone find out where he said it? Is it in print? Was it oral? Honestly, most of his other quotes are able to be traced but not this one. I wonder why? To me it sounds awfully suspect.

"gazillion" is that anything near our national debt. I assume you mean "ginormous" numbers of people "say" he said it. While it is no proof, it is approaching what we call in mathematics....statistical significance.

 

[annsni]

Well then, the best we can ALL say is we know NOT for certain. Just be intellectually honest that it is as possible that he did say it, as it is he did not say it.

But I understand your sensitivity, being of the "reformed theology" camp.

But my next question, why is it of ANY import to you, the quote had nothing to do with the Servetus affair, just an ironic oddity.

I don't give a rip what "camp" I'm in. I look for truth and if someone is going to make an assertion, they need to back it up. I see no evidence whatsoever that this was an actual quote from Calvin and since it is SOOO based on the "give a man a fish", I could see some wise guy coming up with it and thinking it was cute. An "ironic oddity"? Yeah - it's a godly man who speaks of setting people on fire. It's not worthy of ANYONE attached to Christ.

 

[annsni]

"gazillion" is that anything near our national debt. I assume you mean "ginormous" numbers of people "say" he said it. While it is no proof, it is approaching what we call in mathematics....statistical significance.

That's right - we listen to the numerous ignorants and decide that they must be right.

You know the vast majority of people in the world think they are going to heaven as well. Yes, "statistical significance" but far from the truth. But maybe truth doesn't mean much anymore? Of course we know why - because of the father of lies.

 

[quantumfaith]

I don't give a rip what "camp" I'm in. I look for truth and if someone is going to make an assertion, they need to back it up. I see no evidence whatsoever that this was an actual quote from Calvin and since it is SOOO based on the "give a man a fish", I could see some wise guy coming up with it and thinking it was cute. An "ironic oddity"? Yeah - it's a godly man who speaks of setting people on fire. It's not worthy of ANYONE attached to Christ.

SO THEN ANNSI, IGNORE it.

Obviously you did not read the quote critically, only with your seething angst against any of those who Dare to hold a different position than do you. You are not the sole purveyor or interpreter of truth maam.

Again, if you read the quote without your "passionate" feelings toward yes "your camp", you would realize the quote had NOTHING to do with Servetus.

 

[quantumfaith]

That's right - we listen to the numerous ignorants and decide that they must be right.

You know the vast majority of people in the world think they are going to heaven as well. Yes, "statistical significance" but far from the truth. But maybe truth doesn't mean much anymore? Of course we know why - because of the father of lies.

Ok, are you making any allegations with regard to truth or Father of lies personally toward myself. If so, please do say so and be perfectly clear about it.

 

[annsni]

Oh right!! It doesn't!! See, a quote is attributed to a man and then he additionally is accused of burning someone at the stake. Right - they have nothing to do with each other - other than they are lies. See, there is no real argument so one must use lies instead. :thumbsup:

 

[menageriekeeper]

Well then, the best we can ALL say is we know NOT for certain. Just be intellectually honest that it is as possible that he did say it, as it is he did not say it.

As a nonCal I have to say: it is intellectually DIShonest to quote as fact something that can't be traced directly to the source. Apologize and get it over with.

By the way, here is what happens when lots of people attribute truth to a lie:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40765374/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

 

[quantumfaith]

As a nonCal I have to say: it is intellectually DIShonest to quote as fact something that can't be traced directly to the source. Apologize and get it over with.

By the way, here is what happens when lots of people attribute truth to a lie:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40765374/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

I am sorry Menagerie, at the moment, I do not feel as there is anything to apologize for. As was stated in my post, the quote was given in irony with respect to someone else had stated about Michael Servetus. Furthermore in that post I CLEARLY stated, "not being a qualified historian, I pass no judgement on Mr. Calvin with respect to the Servetus issue. The quote may or may not be accurate, what you are asking for is impossible, much like the atheists claim when debating believers and speaking of "first causes" it leads to reduction infinitum. (Please do not think I am equating you or ANYONE with atheism just a simple analogy). The quote was intended to demosntrate "irony" with respect to the discussion at that moment. Perhaps an ill timed effort at levity, but nothing more.

 

[quantumfaith]

As a nonCal I have to say: it is intellectually DIShonest to quote as fact something that can't be traced directly to the source. Apologize and get it over with.

By the way, here is what happens when lots of people attribute truth to a lie:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40765374/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

msnbc will not come up on my computer. (Humor)

 

[Rippon]

I am sorry Menagerie, at the moment, I do not feel as there is anything to apologize for. As was stated in my post, the quote was given in irony with respect to someone else had stated about Michael Servetus. Furthermore in that post I CLEARLY stated, "not being a qualified historian, I pass no judgement on Mr. Calvin with respect to the Servetus issue. The quote may or may not be accurate, what you are asking for is impossible, much like the atheists claim when debating believers and speaking of "first causes" it leads to reduction infinitum. (Please do not think I am equating you or ANYONE with atheism just a simple analogy). The quote was intended to demosntrate [sic]"irony" with respect to the discussion at that moment. Perhaps an ill timed effort at levity, but nothing more.

Lots of words when a simple "I'm sorry" from your keyboard would have sufficed. Your "quote" is a lie. Lies will not further your cause -- whatever your "cause" may be.