Are Baptists Calvinists Or Arminianists?

[annsni]

I am sorry Menagerie, at the moment, I do not feel as there is anything to apologize for. As was stated in my post, the quote was given in irony with respect to someone else had stated about Michael Servetus. Furthermore in that post I CLEARLY stated, "not being a qualified historian, I pass no judgement on Mr. Calvin with respect to the Servetus issue. The quote may or may not be accurate, what you are asking for is impossible, much like the atheists claim when debating believers and speaking of "first causes" it leads to reduction infinitum. (Please do not think I am equating you or ANYONE with atheism just a simple analogy). The quote was intended to demosntrate "irony" with respect to the discussion at that moment. Perhaps an ill timed effort at levity, but nothing more.

But you quoted it as if it were fact. I challenged that fact and you cannot show that it was Calvin who said it. I'm sorry but it is not levity to accuse someone (who apparently seems to be an enemy of yours) of saying something as offensive as you quoted - especially when the link you gave lied and said that Calvin burned anabaptists at the stake. It is obvious that the two are tied together and you absolutely pass judgment on Calvin with respect to the Servetus issue. You did so by posting an unfounded quote.

As Rippon said, a simple "I'm sorry, I was wrong" would have sufficed but instead you say "There's nothing to apologize for." Most of us see otherwise.

 

[BobinKy]

Will this quote do?

John Calvin writes: “Solomon also teaches us that not only was the destruction of the ungodly foreknown, but the ungodly themselves have been created for the specific purpose of perishing (Prov. 16:4).” (Calvin’s New Testament Commentaries: Romans and Thessalonians, pp.207-208)​

Courtesy of Society of Evangelical Armenians.

...Bob

 

[BobinKy]

Here is an outline of The FACTS of Arminianism vs. The TULIP of Calvinism.

...Bob

 

[BobinKy]

Post deleted by BobinKy

 

[Luke2427]

An "ironic" quote of John Calvin, not being a qualified historian, I will not make a judgement on the guilt or innocense of Mr. Calvin in the Servetus issue.

“Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.” (John Calvin)

What's ironic about that? You're too vague sometimes.

The most "on fire" people in the past five centuries have by and large been Calvinists.

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Edited
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Reading on I see now. You were talking about Calvin burning Servetus at the stake. I think that is kinda low Quantum.

Servetus was a heretic who was determined to undermine the Gospel.

Obviously though Calvin was not referring to that kind of fire.

 

[Luke2427]

Will this quote do?

John Calvin writes: “Solomon also teaches us that not only was the destruction of the ungodly foreknown, but the ungodly themselves have been created for the specific purpose of perishing (Prov. 16:4).” (Calvin’s New Testament Commentaries: Romans and Thessalonians, pp.207-208)​

Courtesy of Society of Evangelical Armenians.

...Bob

It depends- what do you want it to do. If you want it to express a great truth that the natural man finds horribly unpalatable- then yes- it will do.

 

[convicted1]

Are Baptists Calvinists Or Arminianists


YES

I second that , Bro. Salty. Baptists are many different flavors.

 

[Luke2427]

Found these words on the internet: Are Baptists Calvinists Or Arminianists?

Article contrasts The Five Points of Arminianism with The Five Points of Calvinism.

...Bob

They have historically been predominantly Calvinistic. That is not to say that Smyth did not come along and make a significant portion of them Arminian.

But they began and continued for a long time to be majority Calvinistic.

The Southern Baptists were Calvinistic in their early days and into the first quarter of the last century. As is usually the case liberalism made them more Arminian. But as they became more conservative they began to become more Calvinistic. Thank God they are beginning to return to their roots.

 

[annsni]

Will this quote do?

John Calvin writes: “Solomon also teaches us that not only was the destruction of the ungodly foreknown, but the ungodly themselves have been created for the specific purpose of perishing (Prov. 16:4).” (Calvin’s New Testament Commentaries: Romans and Thessalonians, pp.207-208)​

Courtesy of Society of Evangelical Armenians.

...Bob

Amen. Scripture sometimes isn't easy to hear but it is truth. :godisgood:

 

[menageriekeeper]

Here is an outline of The FACTS of Arminianism vs. The TULIP of Calvinism.

...Bob

Yes, much better, however, while I'm sure you can get accurate info from that site on Arminianism, their info on Calvinism will likely be biased. Finding a similar source for Calvinism will give you more reliable information on what they believe. You can tell from the conversations here, if you read between the bickering, that Calvinists don't believe exactly the same, nor do all nonCals believe in a manner that would make them Arminian. So read about both views with a mind open to the leading of the Holy Spirit and look up the scripture references that are given to be certain they are quoted in context. The Holy Spirit will give you the understanding you need to do His work in the place you have been planted.

 

[Rippon]

As a nonCal I have to say: it is intellectually DIShonest to quote as fact something that can't be traced directly to the source. Apologize and get it over with.
http://

Quantumfaith still has not come clean and admitted that his "quote" was a complete lie.

Better fess up. Lies won't promote your philosophy.

 

[Rippon]

An "ironic" quote of John Calvin, not being a qualified historian, I will not make a judgement on the guilt or innocense (sic)of Mr. Calvin in the Servetus issue.

“Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day; set him on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.” (John Calvin)

This was the "quote" that Quantumfaith attributed to John Calvin. It is totally bogus. If he won't admit it -- it shows his utter disregard for truth-telling.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Found these words on the internet: Are Baptists Calvinists Or Arminianists?

Article contrasts The Five Points of Arminianism with The Five Points of Calvinism.

...Bob

The short answer is "Yes".

 

[quantumfaith]

This was the "quote" that Quantumfaith attributed to John Calvin. It is totally bogus. If he won't admit it -- it shows his utter disregard for truth-telling.

Rippon,

I didnt (and still dont know) that it is not with all certainty attributable to Mr. Calvin and neither do YOU. I agree NOW it is unlikely, but it does not take away from the historical fact that Mr. Calvin did in the name of his beliefs have persons executed, and UNDENIABLE FACT of history. I see your level of immaturity and how you simply love inflame and stir the pot.

 

[Rippon]

Rippon,

I didnt [sic](and still dont know) that it is not with all certainty attributable to Mr. Calvin and neither do YOU. I agree NOW it is unlikely, but it does not take away from the historical fact that Mr. Calvin did in the name of his beliefs have persons executed, and [sic]UNDENIABLE FACT of history. I see your level of immaturity and how you simply love [sic]inflame and stir the pot.

Let's get this straight. You post a lie and yet I am the one who is supposed to be the bad guy in this? That doesn't compute.

Calvin did not execute anyone. He didn't have the authority. He didn't even become a citizen of Geneva until 1559, a mere five years before his death. The council of which he was a member was largely against him --the Libertines.

Bottom line. You still won't admit after all the time that has passed by that your quote was a bold-faced lie. You didn't manufacture the quote,but you were pleased to pass it on -- to what end?Yes,to stir the pot with false and therefore evil report.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Let's get this straight. You post a lie and yet I am the one who is supposed to be the bad guy in this? That doesn't compute.

Calvin did not execute anyone. He didn't have the authority. He didn't even become a citizen of Geneva until 1559, a mere five years before his death. The council of which he was a member was largely against him --the Libertines.

Calvin was not the executioner, but he certainly was guilty of being an accessory to a number of executions.

On his way to Italy, Servetus stopped in Geneva for unknown reasons and attended one of Calvin's sermons in St Pierre. Calvin had him arrested, and Calvin's secretary Nicholas de la Fontaine composed a list of accusations that was submitted before the court. The prosecutor was Philibert Berthelier, a member of a libertine family and son of a famous Geneva patriot, and the sessions were led by Pierre Tissot, Perrin's brother-in-law. The libertines allowed the trial to drag on in an attempt to harass Calvin. The difficulty in using Servetus as a weapon against Calvin was that the heretical reputation of Servetus was widespread and most of the cities in Europe were observing and awaiting the outcome of the trial. This posed a dilemma for the libertines, so on 21 August the council decided to write to other Swiss churches for their opinions, thus mitigating their own responsibility for the final decision. While waiting for the responses, the council also asked Servetus if he preferred to be judged in Vienne or in Geneva. He begged to stay in Geneva. On 20 October the replies from Zurich, Basel, Bern, and Schaffhausen were read and the council condemned Servetus as a heretic. The following day he was sentenced to burning at the stake, the same sentence as in Vienne. Calvin and other ministers asked that he be beheaded instead of burnt. This plea was refused and on 27 October, Servetus was burnt alive—atop a pyre of his own books—at the Plateau of Champel at the edge of Geneva.[45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

With the approval of Calvin, the other plotters who remained in the city were found and executed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

On October 27, 1553 John Calvin, the founder of Calvinism, had Michael Servetus, the Spanish physician, burned at the stake just outside of Geneva for his doctrinal heresies!

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/michael-servetus.htm

Calvin wrote his friend, Farel, on February 13, 1546 (seven years prior to Servetus' arrest) and went on record as saying:

"If he [Servetus] comes [to Geneva], I shall never let him go out alive if my authority has weight.

During Servetus' trial, Calvin wrote:

"I hope that the verdict will call for the death penalty."

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/michael-servetus.htm

 

[Bro. James]

All Hail: Jon Chauvin or Jacobus Arminius

We may have left out a possible answer to the question: none of the above. Some of us still want to follow Apollos, some Cephas, some Augustine...etal...ad infinitum.

I could probably qualify as a 6-point Calvinist; but I do not follow Calvin. He was no friend to the True Baptist--nor was Luther. Arminius was a salvation by works/grace guy according to my opinion. Calvin said baptism is a sacrament with redeeming qualities applicable to infants. What's wrong with that? There are many called Baptist who seem to be Arminian. Some Baptists are in name only. Other Baptists, so called, have removed the word Baptist from their logos.

Que lastima!

The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
The Lord knows them that are His.
They hear His voice and follow Him. They will not follow any another.

Let us get out of our religious comfort zones, people, our redemption draws neigh.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[David Lamb]

Here is an outline of The FACTS of Arminianism vs. The TULIP of Calvinism.

...Bob

But that site is not comparing like with like. The section on Arminianism starts:

Arminianism may be represented by the acronym FACTS:
Freed by Grace (to Believe)
Atonement for All
Conditional Election
Total Depravity
Security in Christ
These points broadly and roughly correspond to the historic Articles of Remonstrance (though they are not specifically a representation of them), which were composed in July 1610 by early Arminians and constitute the first formal summary of Arminian theology.
​

Then the section on Calvinism begins:

The Calvinist position may be represented by the acronym TULIP:
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints
These are derived from the Synod of Dort, a local synod in Holland, which convened in 1618-1619 to contradict and condemn the Articles of Remonstrance.
​

Notice the difference. The Arminian Articles of Remonstrance (there were five of them) "constitute the first formal summary of Arminian theology." The so-called five points of Calvinism were not composed as a summary of Calvinist theology, but in answer to the Arminian Articles of Remonstrance.

Calvinists believe far more than the 5 points, which only addressed the five matters of the Remonstrance.

 

[Jarthur001]

Rippon,

I didnt (and still dont know) that it is not with all certainty attributable to Mr. Calvin and neither do YOU. I agree NOW it is unlikely, but it does not take away from the historical fact that Mr. Calvin did in the name of his beliefs have persons executed, and UNDENIABLE FACT of history. I see your level of immaturity and how you simply love inflame and stir the pot.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!

I was not around when this thread was running. I just read through it, and I must say I'm shocked at how much a person will do, to dodge guilt.

quantumfaith ....you once said you read Calvin. The more I read of your post, I find this very hard to believe.