Why do we do this?

[CF1]

When I've been involved in leading new believers to Christ I've tried to present the gospel and ask if they believe. If they say yes they believe that Jesus died for their sins and accept Him as Lord and are thankful, I usually follow up with a hug, not a prayer. But then later I ask them would they like to thank the Lord for such a wonderful gift He has given them and the response is always yes. It's beautiful to hear them pray in thanksgiving for the first time. The prayer does not convert them. So I try to emphasize the faith is what saved them a few moments earlier and I try to remember to emphasize they are saved when they believed, then pause, then thank. A hug in between tends to reinforce it's done when they realized they could say "yes, I believe".

I did not check any boxes. I would have checked boxes like the following:

• 
  The term "sinners prayer" lacks clarity about what it represents or accomplishes and should not be used, to prevent confusion about salvic faith and grace.

• 
  The term "sinners prayer" can cause some people believe in a human formula to follow to salvation, rather than simple faith, by grace.

• 
  The term "sinners prayer" can be a misrepresentation of the glory of God in salvation.

• 
  A prayer after believing is not necessary for salvation

• 
  A prayer after believing can be common, but should be understood that the prayer is not salvic. Something much bigger and grander was salvic.

Praise the Lord for the grand work that He accomplishes in us! It gives me goosebumps remembering people who I have seen come to the Lord! What a moment! What a treasure to see God in Spirit coming down from Heaven and causing a spark of belief in a human soul! Praise the Lord!

 

[Jon-Marc]

There is no such thing as a "sinner's prayer". The words vary from person to person. The Publican in the Bible simply said, "God, be merciful to me, a sinner", and he went away justified.

My first time calling on the Lord (supposedly) was at age 16 where I was told what to say. The words meant nothing to me, and I went away still lost. It wasn't until nearly a year later that God made me realize that I was still lost. I was alone except for the devil trying to keep me from being saved and the Holy Spirit convicting me. I knelt by my bed and called on the Lord to forgive me and save me and He DID!

 

[CF1]

Beautiful testimony! I my minds eye I hear the angels singing and straining to cry out Glory to God!

 

[Tom Butler]

I'd like to take this discussion in a slightly different direction. Below are to sample prayers I found on a couple of websites.

"Lord Jesus, I believe you are the Son of God. Thank you for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive my sins and give me the gift of eternal life. I ask you in to my life and heart to be my Lord and Savior. I want to serve you always."

Say the following prayer out loud, believe it from your heart, and you will become saved and born again.

Dear Father,

I now believe that Jesus Christ is Your only begotten Son, that He came to our earth in the flesh and died on the cross to take away all of my sins and the sins of this world. I believe that Jesus Christ then rose from the dead on the third day to give all of us eternal life.

Lord Jesus,

I now confess to You all of the wrong and sinful things that I have ever done in my life. I ask that You please forgive me and wash away all of my sins by the blood that You have personally shed for me on the cross. I am now ready to accept You as my personal Lord and Savior. I now ask that You come into my life and live with me for all of eternity.

Father, Jesus - I now believe that I am truly saved and born again.

Thank You Father.
Thank You Jesus.

Now, let's measure these prayers against scripture. Do any of them match the examples of conversion that we find in Acts? Do any of them accurately reflect what the New Testament says about how to be saved? Would you change, eliminate or add anything?

I'll add my comments in a later post, but let me ask this question to end this post: Could these prayers, or any so-called "Sinner's Prayer" be adapted so that the sinner is speaking before a congregation rather than directly to God? In other words, confessing Christ before men?

 

[CF1]

Yes, its good to get back on track to the original post.

It seems it is better to ask questions about faith, rather than put words in people's mouth.

But that might not be always possible, such as when someone is on their death bed and asks what must I do to be saved. Yet even then the answer is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ", not pray a prayer with potentially empty words that have no meaning in the person's heart.

God looks at the heart, not words that come from an actor.

 

[Winman]

Well, you're right, I shouldn't assume. But I do wonder about it.
Let me assume something about you, though, for purposes of discussion.
You are a devoted believer, active in your church, have a thirst for the Word of God, a love for the brethren and a desire to fellowship with them. I'll bet you share your faith when the Holy Spirit opens the way.
A fellow church member of yours hasn't shown up in two years. He's a decent guy, but shows no interest in any of those spiritual things that you have an interest in.
In other words, if he were on trial for being a Christian, there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him.
Now, what is the difference between you and him? Did your church disciple each of you differently? Did it fail to follow up, visit, call, write when he started missing?
I don't know the answer to the questions I've asked. But I would hesitate to reassure your fellow church member regarding his salvation, wouldn't you?

I can't tell for absolute certain who's saved or not. I only know I am saved because I sincerely asked Jesus to save me.
Salvation is not just knowing that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and rose from the dead, no, it is a very personal relationship , it is you as a person going to him as a person. It is as real as talking to your spouse, in fact, it is more personal than that, I have told Jesus things I would never tell another living soul.
I don't judge a person to be lost because they quit coming to church or have fallen into sin. If they tell me they believe in Jesus, and asked him to save them, I tend to believe them. Many in the scriptures were saved but lived in sin like Lot, or Samson, or even Solomon.
I think there are going to be lots of surprises at the Rapture.

 

[Tom Butler]

I can't tell for absolute certain who's saved or not. I only know I am saved because I sincerely asked Jesus to save me.
Salvation is not just knowing that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and rose from the dead, no, it is a very personal relationship , it is you as a person going to him as a person. It is as real as talking to your spouse, in fact, it is more personal than that, I have told Jesus things I would never tell another living soul.
I don't judge a person to be lost because they quit coming to church or have fallen into sin. If they tell me they believe in Jesus, and asked him to save them, I tend to believe them. Many in the scriptures were saved but lived in sin like Lot, or Samson, or even Solomon.
I think there are going to be lots of surprises at the Rapture.

No disagreement here. I'm not going to judge one's salvation, either. But if one is living in flagrant sin and says he's been saved, the best I can do is observe that I don't see any evidence, and suggest that he and God have some things to talk about.

Let me get your opinion on this: When a believer falls into sin (and I have), sometimes God beats up on us worse than a lost person. In fact, God's chastisement can be a sign that he is, in fact, a child of God. Would you agree?

 

[Winman]

No disagreement here. I'm not going to judge one's salvation, either. But if one is living in flagrant sin and says he's been saved, the best I can do is observe that I don't see any evidence, and suggest that he and God have some things to talk about.

Let me get your opinion on this: When a believer falls into sin (and I have), sometimes God beats up on us worse than a lost person. In fact, God's chastisement can be a sign that he is, in fact, a child of God. Would you agree?

I completely agree. A true Christian can sin just like anyone else, but he cannot enjoy it, he will be miserable. I also agree that our Father certainly beats up on us worse as you say. When a sheep keeps trying to leave the flock, sometimes the shepherd has to give it a sharp knock with his staff!

 

[Old Union Brother]

I completely agree. A true Christian can sin just like anyone else, but he cannot enjoy it, he will be miserable. I also agree that our Father certainly beats up on us worse as you say. When a sheep keeps trying to leave the flock, sometimes the shepherd has to give it a sharp knock with his staff!

It is outlined in Hebrews, God dealing with his disobedient children consider these scriptures: (KJV)

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

As Christian men an women, when we error we get these chastisements, they are grevious at the time but it is just another witness that we are one of his.

 

[convicted1]

It is outlined in Hebrews, God dealing with his disobedient children consider these scriptures: (KJV)

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

As Christian men an women, when we error we get these chastisements, they are grevious at the time but it is just another witness that we are one of his.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :wavey:

 

[Tom Butler]

"Lord Jesus, I believe you are the Son of God. Thank you for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive my sins and give me the gift of eternal life. I ask you in to my life and heart to be my Lord and Savior. I want to serve you always."

In an earlier post I promised to comment on the above "sinner's prayer" and another one after hearing from some of you about them.

So let's look at this one:
Lord Jesus, I believe you are the son of God. Just fine. In fact, good enough that Philip was willing to baptize the Ethiopian eunuch after hearing those words from him. If the statement is driven by a repentant heart, why isn't this enough?

Thank you for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive my sins and give me the gift of eternal life. Why didn't the soul-winner stop right there? The inner has already expressed faith, now has expressed repentance.

I ask you into my life and heart to be my Lord and Savior. Based on what the sinner has already prayed, this is unnecessary. And if it is necessary, why do we need the other sentences?

I want to serve you always. Same question

So, what we have here is:

I believe you, Jesus, are the son of God (apparently not enough to save)
I believe you died for my sins ( apparently not enough)
Please forgive my sins. (not enough)
Please give me eternal life (not enough)
Come into my life (still not enough)
Come into my heart (still needs something else)
Be my Lord and Savior (you've almost said the required words)
I want to serve you (ah, now you've got it)

When you counsel someone to "pray this prayer" or "pray something like this,' exactly what is the minimum number of words the sinner needs to say to be saved?

I'll deal with the other prayer in a later post. I hope this one will keep you busy for now. Release the hounds.

 

[Tom Butler]

I want to make it quite clear that I don't doubt for a moment the sincerity of a soul-winner who uses the Sinner's Prayer. In fact, I appreciate their passion for souls and their desire to be used of God to bring men and women to Christ

In re-reading my previous post (#51) some of it came across as making fun of them. I don't intend that, but do admit to some small degree of sarcasm aimed at getting the reader to think through this entire question .

I repeat my admiration for those who have a heart for souls. I want our call to the lost to be a clear trumpet, not some coom-bah-yah sentimentality.

 

[CF1]

When you counsel someone to "pray this prayer" or "pray something like this,' exactly what is the minimum number of words the sinner needs to say to be saved?

Answer: Zero.

The heart needs to change to humbly believe rather than proudly rebel.

Luke 23:42 (New American Standard Bible)
42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your Kingdom!"

 

[Tom Butler]

In my post #44 I pasted two different "Sinner's Prayers" suggested on a couple of websites.

A couple of posts earlier from this one, I gave my thoughts on the shorter one of the two.

Here's the longer second one. My comments in bold type:

Say the following prayer out loud, believe it from your heart, and you will become saved and born again.

Romans 10:9 says confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. But nowhere does it say pray out loud. And, if you believe it in your heart, why do you have to pray it out loud?

Dear Father, (A lost man holds the Father dear? He's not even a child of God yet; he hasn't said all the right words)

I now (already too wordy. If you believe you believe now) believe that Jesus Christ is Your only begotten Son (why not simply say you believe Jesus is God's son), that He came to our earth in the flesh (not necessary to believe this to be saved) and died on the cross to take away all of my sins and the sins of this world (only your sins matter here, not the world's).. I believe that Jesus Christ then rose from the dead (good) on the third day (superfluous--who cares?) to give all of us eternal life (but he didn't give eternal life to all, only to believers)

Lord Jesus, Hold it. Philip baptized the eunuch after he said he believed Jesus Christ is the Son of God. More is required?

I now confess to You all of the wrong and sinful things (so, some things are just wrong, but other things are sinful) that I have ever done in my life. I ask that You please forgive me (stopping right here would have worked). and wash away all of my sins by the blood that You have personally shed for me on the cross (you've already said this once).. I am now (wordy again) ready (you were obviously ready one sentence into this prayer) to accept You as my personal Lord and Savior. (Paul didn't say accept Jesus as Lord; he said confess him as Lord) I now ask that You come into my life and live with me for all of eternity. (So, believing, repenting, confessing and accepting don't quite cut it?).

Father, Jesus - (Our prayer is to God, in the name of Jesus. We do not pray to Jesus in the name of Jesus).I now believe that I am truly (useless word) saved and born again. (Calvinists believe being born again and being saved are two different things. Is that what you want to say? If it is, being born again precedes being saved. If not, one of them is unnecessary)

Thank You Father.
Thank You Jesus.

Some of this is not even scriptural. And how many lost people really know what a "begotten" Son is? Talk about an uncertain trumpet.

 

[Jim1999]

I had a man, in my Saskatchewan church, come forward in a meeting at which no invitation was even given. After, whilst meeting with him, he couldn't even speak. All he could say was, Jesus receives me; Jesus receives me! That was 49 years ago. To-day he is a missionary with the Fellowship Baptists in India.

I guess it worked.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Tom Butler]

Okay, I've had my fun with those two versions of the Sinner's Prayer. This was like shooting fish in a barrel. It points out the danger of devising such a prayer. You better get it right, because you surely don't want to have a lost man praying the wrong words.

So how about some of you? Wanna take a crack at those prayers in post #44? Was I right or wrong?

Wanna create some magic words of your own (sorry, a prayer of your own) that'll pass scriptural muster, avoid wordiness and pious blather? Have at it, and I'll be thinking about my own version for a later post.

 

[Tom Butler]

I had a man, in my Saskatchewan church, come forward in a meeting at which no invitation was even given. After, whilst meeting with him, he couldn't even speak. All he could say was, Jesus receives me; Jesus receives me! That was 49 years ago. To-day he is a missionary with the Fellowship Baptists in India.

I guess it worked.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, I don't know if you know the name Paul Washer. He is a Southern Baptist evangelist. He related a similar story of a man who spoke up in a meeting and said, "I'm saved, I'm saved!" Then, weeping almost uncontrollably, he repeated "I'm saved, I'm saved." No confession of sin, no expression of repentance and faith, no praying, no asking for forgiveness, no walking the aisle (at least not outwardly). Interesting.

I may have gotten the context wrong, but the gist of the story is true. I"ll try to find the video in which he tells this story.

 

[Jim1999]

Well, in my 83 years, I have seen just about everything. Often I only heard about results years later.

I always believed my calling was to preach the word, and be available....God handled the rest.

Something like handling funerals. The best thing to say is nothing, but holding a hand firmly says plenty.

Cheers,

Jim