The theology of hell

[menageriekeeper]

One of the things I love about this board is that it shows me the gaps in my knowledge of what I'm supposed to believe in. This time, my thread on universalism has led me to question what I really know about hell. Feel free to include "lake of fire" topics but be clear in your definitions.

Questions I would like answered:

OT hell/NT hell, is there a difference?

Hades/hell/lake of fire, which is which and how does one tell which definition is appropriate for which passage of scripture?

How did the theory of hell get its start? I find it interesting that hell is not mentioned as a destination until Psalms according to a simple search of my KJV and not until Matthew if I search the ESV. Before then the word seems to describe a state of being (how angry, how beset, etc).

Any other information you find relevant I'm sure I'll find interesting.

Play nice!

 

[Amy.G]

Any other information you find relevant I'm sure I'll find interesting.

It's hot. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Scarlett O.]

One of the things I love about this board is that it shows me the gaps in my knowledge of what I'm supposed to believe in.

The more that I learn, the more gaps I find in what I already thought that I knew. :tongue3:

This is an area that I, myself, cannot express definitively. I was going to create a link to this question being answered by the writers at gotquestions.org because I find them trustworthy in their scriptural explanations of things that I am unsure of. I always read the scriptures that they suggest and check for myself if they are correct.

However .... I wasn't sure that I fully agreed with their assessments of what "paradise" was. So all I am quoting from them is their first line. THAT, I heartily agreed with.

Question: "What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?"

Answer: The different terms used in the Bible for heaven and hell—sheol, hades, gehenna, the lake of fire, paradise, and Abraham’s bosom—are the subject of much debate and can be confusing.

:flower: I most humbly concur. :flower:

I don't have an answer, MK, but am looking forward to hearing from others.

 

[Old Union Brother]

Actually the first mention of hell in the KJV is in Deutronomy:

32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Amy all I can say in response is

Scarlett, I'll go peruse the site. I was taught about paradise (as the heaven for believers before Christ died), but I can't back up what I was taught.

I agree the subject is confusing and debatable. But if its a foundational belief we should be able to explain and expound upon it. Shouldn't we?

 

[menageriekeeper]

Old Union, notice I said "hell as a destination". The Duet. reference you posted is a description of God's anger and seems on a plain reading by my public school educated self to describe God's anger in terms of volcanic activity in language that the people of the time could recognize.

 

[Old Union Brother]

Old Union, notice I said "hell as a destination". The Duet. reference you posted is a description of God's anger and seems on a plain reading by my public school educated self to describe God's anger in terms of volcanic activity in language that the people of the time could recognize.

overlooked that sorry...did not mean to upset you.

 

[Amy.G]

Luke 16:23-26 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I think this is one of the passages where we get the teaching of Paradise/Abraham's bosom.

At any rate, the rich man is in flames and being tormented without remedy. (hell)

 

[menageriekeeper]

I'm not upset. Just clarifying. (the volcanic activity thing was supposed to be tongue in cheek, though that is the suggestion I get from reading the passage)

 

[Scarlett O.]

I agree the subject is confusing and debatable. But if its a foundational belief we should be able to explain and expound upon it. Shouldn't we?

Yes, I agree. That's why I want to see what others have to say. I hope to hear more on this thread.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Scarlet O. quoted a good question:

"What is the difference between Sheol, Hades, Hell, the lake of fire, Paradise, and Abraham’s bosom?"

The way I have understood it over the past 20 years or so:

Definitions:

Sheol – The grave (Hebrew) for both righteous and unrighteous.
Hades – The abode of the dead (Greek mythology). Will eventually be cast into the Lake of Fire.
Hell –(Gehenna?) The place of destruction, away from God.
The Lake of Fire – (Gehenna?) The place of destruction prepared for the adversary, demons, and those not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life after they are judged for their deeds. This is the second death.
Paradise – This is the abobe of the physically dead in the presence and light of God. Perhaps the same thing as what we call “heaven” today, although I am undecided.
Abraham’s bosom – This is the abode of the physically dead in the presence and light of God. The idea seems to be that believer (one who shares the faith of Abraham) is reunited with his/her spiritual family. Perhaps the same thing as what we call “heaven” today, although I am undecided.


”Destinations” available to those who die today:

“With the Lord” – Those who are Christ’s are with Him in fullness of mind and understanding. They are in Paradise/Abraham’s bosom living in the presence and light of God.

“In torment” – Shut away from the presence and light of God, awaiting judgment.

 

[walkbyfaith]

Hades- A place of unseen but conscious dead, both saved and lost. Equivalent to the Hebrew word Sheol, where the souls of the dead were kept. The saved were seperated from the lost by a great gulf. The lost dead are tormented in flame, and continue to remain there until their judgement at the Great White Throne. The saved dead were kept in that portion of Hades known as Abrahams Bosomm or Paradise, until Christ released them upon His ascension and took them to Heaven-where paradise is today. (Luke 16:26, 2Cor 12:2-4, Eph 4:8-10)

Gehenna-The lake of fire and brimstone. The place of eternal punishment and torment, created for Satan and his angels. All of Christs rejects will be cast alive into Gehenna with Satan....false prophets, false professors of Christ. This is what the Bible calls the 2nd death. "Where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched". (Rev 9:20, Rev 20:10, Rev 14:15)

Tartaros- A place where the angels, who left their 1st estate and followed satan, are bound until the time of the tribulation. It is the bottomless pit, or abyss, referred to in the Revelation, and may well be the lowest depths of Hades. (Jude 6, Rev 9:1-11, Rev 20:2-3)

 

[menageriekeeper]

Here is another question:

Is the death that God gives Adam and Eve as a consequence related to hell? By language (something we'd understand if we could read Hebrew)? By development through time and scripture? Or by direct revelation of Christ?

 

[BobinKy]

Luke 16:23-26 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I think this is one of the passages where we get the teaching of Paradise/Abraham's bosom.

At any rate, the rich man is in flames and being tormented without remedy. (hell)

The passage Amy quoted is very interesting. For one, the rich man (in Hell) could look across the great gulf and see Abraham and Lazarus. A second point is the rich man could talk with Abraham, though he could not cross over the great gulf.

An interesting picture, indeed.

...Bob

 

[BobinKy]

The woman of Endor summoning up Samuel for Saul (1 Samuel 28:3-25) is another interesting passage.

Samuel (the dead) showed age, wore a mantle (clothing), spoke with Saul (the living), was disquieted, asked why Saul had the woman bring him him up (from Hell?), and resumed his role as prophet for a short time (the Bible is silent about what happened to Saul after his prophecy to Saul).

...Bob

11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

16Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:

18Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.

19Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.

20Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night. (1 Samuel 28:11-20; KJB).​

 

[walkbyfaith]

The passage Amy quoted is very interesting. For one, the rich man (in Hell) could look across the great gulf and see Abraham and Lazarus. A second point is the rich man could talk with Abraham, though he could not cross over the great gulf.

An interesting picture, indeed.

...Bob

Without question. He could also feel pain, and it shows that there is no way out once there and noone is going to appease your suffering.

 

[BobinKy]

Here is another question:

Is the death that God gives Adam and Eve as a consequence related to hell? By language (something we'd understand if we could read Hebrew)? By development through time and scripture? Or by direct revelation of Christ?

Is one of your questions: When was the start of Hell?

...Bob

 

[menageriekeeper]

Not the origin of hell, but the begining of the Bible teaching us that hell rather than death/destruction was the destination for unbelievers.

 

[BobinKy]

Not the origin of hell, but the begining of the Bible teaching us that hell rather than death/destruction was the destination for unbelievers.

Here is a short word study.

"GEHENNA, HELL, geenna (gheh-en-nah). This noun is the Greek representation of the Hebrew words for 'Valley of the Sons of Hinnom' (see 2 Chr. 28:3), the name for a ravine south of Jerusalem--the site, according to popular belief, of the Last Judgment. In the first three Gospels, geenna is apparently thought of as the site of eternal punishment or condemnation in the afterlife (Matt. 5:29; Luke 12:5), sometimes depicted as a place of fire (Matt. 18:9; Mark 9:45, 45), called 'hell.' The word is also used figuratively to describe the unruly and evil tongue (James 3:6). (Strong's #1067)." (Nelson's Biblical Cyclopedic Index, 2010, p. 195).

Reference
Nelson's Biblical Cyclopedic Index. 2010. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.

...Bob

 

[kyredneck]

Actually the first mention of hell in the KJV is in Deutronomy:

32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

The Song of Moses (Dt 32) is prophetic of 'that generation' of Jews on whom the wrath came for the judicial murder of Christ. It is very significant that it is being sang in the 15th chapter [v3] of Revelation.

19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach thou it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do that which is evil in the sight of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.
30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the assembly of Israel the words of this song, until they were finished. Dt 31

Old Union, notice I said "hell as a destination". The Duet. reference you posted is a description of God's anger and seems on a plain reading by my public school educated self to describe God's anger in terms of volcanic activity in language that the people of the time could recognize.

Yes, the Dt quote is referring to the very same thing that The Prophet is here:

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth [the land]; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

To read the account given by Josephus of what transpired during the wars of 'that generation' sheds light on passages such as this:

6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith Jehovah; but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbor`s hand, and into the hand of his king; and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that which dieth, let it die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let them that are left eat every one the flesh of another. Zech 11

The Jews killed one another FAR more than their enemies killed them. The land of Palestine became 'hell on earth' for that generation.