Those in hell for Arminianism and Calvinism

[Luke2427]

Something funny:

This thread in the list of threads under this segment reads:

"Those in hell for Arminianism"

Now that is worth talking about!:laugh:

 

[Winman]

Look, I anticipate that the big ball in Times Square will fall at 12 AM tonight. I cannot know it, because the world might end today.

But I can absolutely tell you it happened last year.

But God is not just the beginning (Alpha), he is also the end (Omega). From this perspective he can tell us every event that will ever take place in time. Man cannot do this, how does this dishonor or limit God?

And I believe there is scripture to support this. When Jesus told John of things "which must shortly come to pass" in Rev 1:1, they must come to pass because from his perspective they are exactly the things that will happen.

I don't expect you to understand, because you have been indoctrinated to see only the DoG view. You cannot think outside the box.

 

[Luke2427]

Look, I anticipate that the big ball in Times Square will fall at 12 AM tonight. I cannot know it, because the world might end today.

But I can absolutely tell you it happened last year.

But God is not just the beginning (Alpha), he is also the end (Omega). From this perspective he can tell us every event that will ever take place in time. Man cannot do this, how does this dishonor or limit God?

And I believe there is scripture to support this. When Jesus told John of things "which must shortly come to pass" in Rev 1:1, they must come to pass because from his perspective they are exactly the things that will happen.

I don't expect you to understand, because you have been indoctrinated to see only the DoG view. You cannot think outside the box.

No, Winman. YOU get your doctrine from fundamentalist websites. We get ours from the Word of God.

Archangel just showed you from the Word of God where you are wrong.

 

[MB]

You go to hell because of your sin. You go to heaven because of Christ.

I agree. I see rebellion as the root of all sin because all sin is rebellion.

I see righteousness as the covering of Christ and not as our own.
MB

 

[The Archangel]

Look, I anticipate that the big ball in Times Square will fall at 12 AM tonight. I cannot know it, because the world might end today.

But I can absolutely tell you it happened last year.

But God is not just the beginning (Alpha), he is also the end (Omega). From this perspective he can tell us every event that will ever take place in time. Man cannot do this, how does this dishonor or limit God?

And I believe there is scripture to support this. When Jesus told John of things "which must shortly come to pass" in Rev 1:1, they must come to pass because from his perspective they are exactly the things that will happen.

I don't expect you to understand, because you have been indoctrinated to see only the DoG view. You cannot think outside the box.

This discussion about your agreement with the open theist position has absolutely nothing to do with Calvinism or the DoG view. The most ardent Arminians and the most ardent Calvinists absolutely agree on God's declaring the end from the beginning.

You are doggedly holding to a view that is unorthodox to both sides and you are holding and espousing a heretical theology (openness theology).

The Archangel

 

[Winman]

No, Winman. YOU get your doctrine from fundamentalist websites. We get ours from the Word of God.

Archangel just showed you from the Word of God where you are wrong.

On the contrary, Isa 46:10 supports my theory perfectly, saying "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Look, if God can see everything that will happen before it happens, then he knows the end, and therefore from this perspective can tell you exactly what did happen.
This does not prevent him from bringing about his will, it assists him. If I know exactly every move you will make in chess and I am a Master player, I can easily control the game. Nevertheless, you are always free to make the choice of where you want to move.

 

[Luke2427]

On the contrary, Isa 46:10 supports my theory perfectly, saying "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Look, if God can see everything that will happen before it happens, then he knows the end, and therefore from this perspective can tell you exactly what did happen.
This does not prevent him from bringing about his will, it assists him. If I know exactly ever move you will make in chess and I am a Master player, I can easily control the game. Nevertheless, you are always free to make the choice of where you want to move.

Listen to it winman- FROM ancient times. That's when he sees it. He sees it from ancient times.

He is not in the future looking back. He is in Ancient times looking forward.

Mind you he IS everywhere at all times and time is nothing to him. But in this verse it specifies that in Ancient times he knew ALL THINGS to come.

If there has ever been time where God did not know something whatsoever, then he is NOT omniscient.

That is open theism to declare otherwise.

You don't realize that to support your Arminianism you must launch into dangerous territory doctrinally.

 

[Jarthur001]

On the contrary, Isa 46:10 supports my theory perfectly, saying "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Look, if God can see everything that will happen before it happens, then he knows the end, and therefore from this perspective can tell you exactly what did happen.
This does not prevent him from bringing about his will, it assists him. If I know exactly ever move you will make in chess and I am a Master player, I can easily control the game. Nevertheless, you are always free to make the choice of where you want to move.

man oh man....

That my friend is Open Theism. To all others reading this...., this idea is the logical end one will come to when one holds to Arminianism.

I don't see other "free-willers" standing with you winman. But I have to say, I don't see them telling you this is wrong.

Now that part is sad.

 

[Luke2427]

man oh man....

That my friend is Open Theism. To all others reading this...., this idea is the logical end one will come to when one holds to Arminianism.

I don't see other "free-willers" standing with you winman. But I have to say, I don't see them telling you this is wrong.

Now that part is sad.

And THAT is the problem. Intelligent people like Quantum ought to be helping guys like winman. Instead they come along and pat them on the back and say, "Good job" "Great thoughts" "Excellent posts" and they push them right along to these dangerous conclusions.

 

[Winman]

Listen to it winman- FROM ancient times. That's when he sees it. He sees it from ancient times.

He is not in the future looking back. He is in Ancient times looking forward.

Mind you he IS everywhere at all times and time is nothing to him. But in this verse it specifies that in Ancient times he knew ALL THINGS to come.

If there has ever been time where God did not know something whatsoever, then he is NOT omniscient.

That is open theism to declare otherwise.

You don't realize that to support your Arminianism you must launch into dangerous territory doctrinally.

Your view is absolutely illogical. If God can look forward and see everything that will ever happen, then of course he can look back from this perspective and tell what happened in the past, it is impossible to be otherwise.

And I don't even know what open theism is, this is simple logic a child could understand.

 

[Luke2427]

Your view is absolutely illogical. If God can look forward and see everything that will ever happen, then of course he can look back from this perspective and tell what happened in the past, it is impossible to do otherwise.

And I don't even know what open theism is, this is simple logic a child could understand.

This is a strange doctrine you have developed.

Please help me to understand.

Do you believe that God can see the future right now without having to travel to it and look back.

Because you said God can't see it until it happens.

 

[percho]

We can question God.

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

But in the end it will not matter.

As Jesus would say, believe thou this?

 

[Robert Snow]

Hummmm.


This is Open Theism which I believe if one holds to this, they will be ban from posting on the BB. I maybe wrong, but I do believe they have ban others in the past.

I believe the word you are looking for is "banned."

BTW, I don't agree with Winman's viewpoint, but again, it still comes closer to what the Scripture teaches than Calvinism.

 

[Luke2427]

I believe the word you are looking for is "banned."

BTW, I don't agree with Winman's viewpoint, but again, it still comes closer to what the Scripture teaches than Calvinism.

No it doesn't.

Calvinism is nothing more than reformed theology which is born from the reformation. The reformation was about returning the church to Scripture.

Calvinism is just another name for the truth of Scripture on these matters.

It is just another name for what the church originally believed before corruption entered and took us down the dark road of Roman man-centeredness.

 

[quantumfaith]

This is a strange doctrine you have developed.

Please help me to understand.

Do you believe that God can see the future right now without having to travel to it and look back.

Because you said God can't see it until it happens.

First, I see no claim of a doctrine, second I see no hint that God cannot see it until it happens.

Luke, are you putting "words in Winmans" mouth again. Sorry that my connection is so undependable, I really missed being abused by yall.

 

[preacher4truth]

This is a strange doctrine you have developed.

Please help me to understand.

Do you believe that God can see the future right now without having to travel to it and look back.

Because you said God can't see it until it happens.

He's still defending his grave error? Wow!!!

And I got called arrogant for quoting Paul? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Hmmm. There seems to be a problem:

He states erroneous theology, not in found in Scripture, and defends an unscriptural viewpoint (yet he claims all the Bible is simple yet can't prove his fallacy from Scripture.)

I quote Scripture, but am called arrogant and other names by him for doing so.

Interesting!!!!

:wavey:

 

[pinoybaptist]

............then of course he can look back from this perspective and tell what happened in the past, ..............

So I guess the question should be...where, what, or which is this perspective ?

 

[quantumfaith]

No it doesn't.

Calvinism is nothing more than reformed theology which is born from the reformation. The reformation was about returning the church to Scripture.

Calvinism is just another name for the truth of Scripture on these matters.

It is just another name for what the church originally believed before corruption entered and took us down the dark road of Roman man-centeredness.

Oh no, here we go again.

 

[jbh28]

Your view is absolutely illogical. If God can look forward and see everything that will ever happen, then of course he can look back from this perspective and tell what happened in the past, it is impossible to do otherwise.

And I don't even know what open theism is, this is simple logic a child could understand.

But you have said that God can't look in the future and see what will happen. He only knows what you did when you do it.

Willis, I told you it would be difficult to understand, but if man truly has choice, then God cannot know our decisions until we make them. Nevertheless, he can see all eternity in the future, so he can look back from there. This is beyond our comprehension.

.

http://www.theopedia.com/Open_theism

- God literally changes his mind, continues to learn, and is even said to take risks

Open theism, also called free will theism and openness theology, is the belief that God does not exercise meticulous control of the universe but leaves it "open" for humans to make significant choices (free will) that impact their relationships with God and others. A corollary of this is that God has not predetermined the future. Open Theists further believe that this would imply that God does not know the future exhaustively. Proponents affirm that God is omniscient, but deny that this means that God knows everything that will happen.

 

[Luke2427]

First, I see no claim of a doctrine, second I see no hint that God cannot see it until it happens.

Luke, are you putting "words in Winmans" mouth again. Sorry that my connection is so undependable, I really missed being abused by yall.

You need to catch up- he said it.