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Why Pray, Arminian?

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Luke2427

Active Member
GBC Pastor said:
Nope. Nice try though. God's desire is for all men to be saved. I think that's in the Bible somewhere. And He extends opportunity for all men to be saved. Many will not accept these opportunities and some may have only one opportunity. Why this is so is unknown to us. I would never say one's chances of salvation increase or decrease based on prayer. I pray because God commands me to pray. However, there does seem to be Scriptural evidence of prayer affecting God's actions.



No, the number one factor is whether the sinner receives that which Christ has offered.
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So what does prayer DO for the sinner in your system?

Will it avail anything in your system of belief? WHAT does it avail to pray for a sinner?

Will it move God to draw the one who you pray for more times than he draws any other?
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Luke2427 said:
So what does prayer DO for the sinner in your system?

Will it avail anything in your system of belief? WHAT does it avail to pray for a sinner?

Will it move God to draw the one who you pray for more times than he draws any other?
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And good questions for the Calvinist too.

What does prayer DO for the sinner in your system?
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Luke2427 said:
That wasn't all I said in the OP.
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Our prayers do not change God, no matter what belief system you observe. God commands us to pray according to His will, not ours.
When we pray according to His will our prayers are always answered. Jesus said "I will do it".
Prayer is how we learn to bend our will to His, not how to change His will to ours.

Arguing the differences between the Calvinist prayer and the Arminian prayer is futile and foolish. God has made it clear in His word how and why we are to pray. Your belief system has nothing to do with it.
 
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Luke2427

Active Member
luke1616 said:
God hears the prayers of the righteous, notice He did not say Calvinist, or Arminian lol:BangHead::godisgood:
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He didn't say whatever denominatioin you are from either.

For that matter he didn't say Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.


He didn't say Americans or Nova Scotians.

What is your point?
 
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Luke2427

Active Member
Amy.G said:
Our prayers do not change God, no matter what belief system you observe. God commands us to pray according to His will, not ours.
When we pray according to His will our prayers are always answered. Jesus said "I will do it".
Prayer is how we learn to bend our will to His, not how to change His will to ours.

Arguing the differences between the Calvinist prayer and the Arminian prayer is futile and foolish. God has made it clear in His word how and why we are to pray. Your belief system has nothing to do with it.
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So then according to your definition of prayer- prayer really does not change things- it only changes the one who prays, right?

When you pray, "God save Bob," you don't really expect your prayer to move God to do anything for Bob. You just expect that praying for God to save Bob is just good for you, right?
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Luke2427 said:
So then according to your definition of prayer- prayer really does not change things- it only changes the one who prays, right?

When you pray, "God save Bob," you don't really expect your prayer to move God to do anything for Bob. You just expect that praying for God to save Bob is just good for you, right?
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You're funny Luke. You know good and well according to Calvinist theology that praying for Bob is useless. Bob was either chosen for salvation at the foundation of the world or he was not. Nothing you pray for will change God's mind on it.
 
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luke1616

New Member
Luke2427 said:
He didn't say whatever denominatioin you are from either.

For that matter he didn't say Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.


He didn't say Americans or Nova Scotians.

What is your point?
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Seems like wherever the word "righteous" is in the bible, you have replaced it in your mind with Calvinist lol :BangHead::laugh::love2::godisgood:
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Prayer is a mysterious thing. God is sovereign and His plans will be carried out regardless of what I think, say or do. Yet He tells us to pray.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Now will my prayer for my enemies and those that persecute me change them? Or will it change me?

It's impossible to hate and love at the same time. It's impossible to hate my enemy and pray for their good at the same time. Don't believe me? Try it.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Amy.G said:
You're funny Luke. You know good and well according to Calvinist theology that praying for Bob is useless. Bob was either chosen for salvation at the foundation of the world or he was not. Nothing you pray for will change God's mind on it.
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Amy, here is where I would have to point out to you thats not how a Reformed believer understands prayer or prays. We state God is Sovereign yes but that gives God the ability to change his mind. Did not Abraham argue with God over how many of the righteous would live or die in Sodom? (see Genesis 18).... my own favorate Scripture passage comes from this 'Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?'
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Earth said:
Amy, here is where I would have to point out to you thats not how a Reformed believer understands prayer or prays. We state God is Sovereign yes but that gives God the ability to change his mind. Did not Abraham argue with God over how many of the righteous would live or die in Sodom? (see Genesis 18).... my own favorate Scripture passage comes from this 'Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?'
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Being sovereign also gives God the ability to create beings with a free will to chose or reject Him. :)

Yes Abraham argued with God, but God already knew how many were there that had not completely rejected Him. Abraham didn't convince God of anything. Although he was extremely brave or extremely stupid to argue with God. :laugh:
 
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Luke2427

Active Member
Amy.G said:
You're funny Luke. You know good and well according to Calvinist theology that praying for Bob is useless. Bob was either chosen for salvation at the foundation of the world or he was not. Nothing you pray for will change God's mind on it.
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Not true, but you did not answer the question.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Amy.G said:
Being sovereign also gives God the ability to create beings with a free will to chose or reject Him. :)

Yes Abraham argued with God, but God already knew how many were there that had not completely rejected Him. Abraham didn't convince God of anything. Although he was extremely brave or extremely stupid to argue with God. :laugh:
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I think every Calvinist on this board indicated already that you can reject him but as you say, If your given the Grace, Why would you want too? Then by rejecting God you would be extremely stupid
 
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Winman

Active Member
Earth said:
I think every Calvinist on this board indicated already that you can reject him but as you say, If your given the Grace, Why would you want too? Then by rejecting God you would be extremely stupid
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Yes, and that's why the Bible calls them fools.
 
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Amy.G

New Member
Earth said:
I think every Calvinist on this board indicated already that you can reject him but as you say, If your given the Grace, Why would you want too? Then by rejecting God you would be extremely stupid
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According to the Cals on this board, all you can do is reject Him. That's not a choice.
 
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Luke2427

Active Member
Amy.G said:
According to the Cals on this board, all you can do is reject Him. That's not a choice.
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All you can do is CHOOSE to reject him.

That is BIBLE.

The carnal mind is at enmity with God and IS not subject to the law of God NEITHER INDEED CAN IT BE.

Romans 8.

What does that mean. It means that all that the carnal mind can do is choose to reject God.
 
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