The Triune God

[Amy.G]

Asking for Scriptural evidence of what you claim to be truth is not unorthodox or heretical. I see you failed to post any Scripture to back up your opinion.

The dog thing was just an example. But since you bring it up, my dog does have a will.....he is one hard headed Beagle. He has emotions and intellect too, and I'm pretty sure he is aware of himself. Of course, he does not have any of these things to the degrees that we do. Just as we do not have them to the degree that He does.

A dog is not self aware. He does not know he's a dog or whether he is male or female or that he is going to die. And the most important characteristic of person-hood is a God awareness. Only a person is aware of God, whether he lives in bible belt USA or in the remotest of jungles.
All 3 persons of the Trinity are aware of God because they ARE God.

 

[walkbyfaith]

A dog is not self aware. He does not know he's a dog or whether he is male or female or that he is going to die. And the most important characteristic of person-hood is a God awareness. Only a person is aware of God, whether he lives in bible belt USA or in the remotest of jungles.
All 3 persons of the Trinity are aware of God because they ARE God.

You state that God is 'self aware', then claim that one of the traits of self awareness is an awareness that you are going to die.

So, by implication, God is aware that He is going to die? Is that really what you are saying?

Yes a PERSON has more awareness than a dog. And God has more awareness than a person.

Again, can you give SCRIPTURAL evidence of your claim of God as a person?

 

[Amy.G]

You state that God is 'self aware', then claim that one of the traits of self awareness is an awareness that you are going to die.

So, by implication, God is aware that He is going to die? Is that really what you are saying?

Yes a PERSON has more awareness than a dog. And God has more awareness than a person.

Again, can you give SCRIPTURAL evidence of your claim of God as a person?

Here is an article that might help you. LINK

If the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all bear the names of God, possess the attributes of God, and perform the works of God, then there is no alternative but to acknowledge that our one God exists in three Persons.

 

[walkbyfaith]

Thanks, but that is not Scriptural evidence.

I will however, take a quote from the page you provided:

The reality of the triune Godhead cannot be denied. Those outside of Christ may object to it, but their objections arise primarily because they seek to understand the Creator in terms of the creature, to see God as merely a bigger and better version of man when in reality He is a totally different kind of being, an infinite being whom our finite minds cannot fully comprehend. We believe in the Godhead not because we understand it, but because God has revealed it. It is not incidental or unimportant. It is the very essence of His being, the way He is. And it is necessary for us to know it if we hope to grow in our understanding of His nature and perfections.

A 'being'. This is how I would describe God.

 

[Amy.G]

Thanks, but that is not Scriptural evidence.

I will however, take a quote from the page you provided:

The reality of the triune Godhead cannot be denied. Those outside of Christ may object to it, but their objections arise primarily because they seek to understand the Creator in terms of the creature, to see God as merely a bigger and better version of man when in reality He is a totally different kind of being, an infinite being whom our finite minds cannot fully comprehend. We believe in the Godhead not because we understand it, but because God has revealed it. It is not incidental or unimportant. It is the very essence of His being, the way He is. And it is necessary for us to know it if we hope to grow in our understanding of His nature and perfections.

A 'being'. This is how I would describe God.

I have explained to you what a "person" is. You can do your own word search if you do not believe me.

Each of the Godhead has qualities that belong to a "person", therefore each are a person.

There are many articles on the web that will help you. I suggest you study it out for yourself, but know that it is very unorthodox to refuse to believe that God is a person. In fact that is very common among cults.

 

[walkbyfaith]

Huh, first I am compared to a heretic, now to a cult? Nice.

You have explained nothing. I have asked, repeatedly, for SCRIPTURAL evidence. Not interested in opinion, I'll pass on the websearch. I gave Scriptural evidence to support my claims, it seems you cannot.

God is more than a person. Much more.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have explained to you what a "person" is. You can do your own word search if you do not believe me.Each of the Godhead has qualities that belong to a "person", therefore each are a person.
There are many articles on the web that will help you. I suggest you study it out for yourself, but know that it is very unorthodox to refuse to believe that God is a person. In fact that is very common among cults.

I think the problem here lies within what we perceive "person" means. When we think of it, we think immediately of a human as a "person." We are also called human "beings."

As far as "person" being used to describe God, much of this comes from ascribing human sounding attributes to the Godhead from the Scriptures. The hand of God, His arm (the arm of the Lord), His face, feet, &c.

He is way above our understanding. I don't feel that referring to God as a person is necessarily wrong, no more than using the word being.

If saying He is a person is used in the context to equate Him to man, then that is total error.

In most theological works, the Godhead is explained as "the persons of the trinity." Of course He is way above our thoughts and abilities to describe Him, but these terms although inadequate, do suffice to some extent in helping us try and describe who He is and how He has revealed Himself to us.

 

[walkbyfaith]

I agree with you preacher. I really dont have a problem with callin Him a person per se. I simply asked for Scriptual evidence of this, not opinion.

None were offered, just accusations of heretical or cult behavior.

To try and equate God to a person brings Him down to our level.

 

[preacher4truth]

I agree with you preacher. I really dont have a problem with callin Him a person per se. I simply asked for Scriptual evidence of this, not opinion.

None were offered, just accusations of heretical or cult behavior.

To try and equate God to a person brings Him down to our level.

Saying cultic or heretical is clearly wrong. Walkbyfaith is neither of those. His words aren't implying him to be so either.

There are several on here that put words in peoples mouths. I've had it done today, but the distance and monitor lends itself to the safety of those who enjoy making and who love lies. What we see when persons do this is their true nature and that they are only just practicing religion and theology, and have the talking part down. We should all get the grace part down.

They get away with it because it's not a live arena here, thus, keyboard boldness, and lying kicks in. They're angry folk that stir up strife, and who can't handle a rebuke or instruction.

I enjoy Proverbs 18:6' take on this issue.

I'm not saying Amy is lying, at all, although alluding to those things (cult/heretical) is unfair and unfounded. I wouldn't call God a person, but it's simply our finite description of Him in a way.

Not everything I said here Amy is about you. There are others. I don't want to make two posts or more on this.

 

[Amy.G]

I'm not saying Amy is lying, at all, although alluding to those things (cult/heretical) is unfair and unfounded. I wouldn't call God a person, but it's simply our finite description of Him in a way.

Not everything I said here Amy is about you. There are others. I don't want to make two posts or more on this.

I feel so much better now knowing you don't think I'm a liar.

I never called anyone a heretic. I said that denying God is a person is unorthodox at best and heretical at the worst. (That is a direct quote.) And yes, cults do deny this. It was meant as a warning to turn away from false teachings.

Calling a belief heretical is NOT the same thing as calling someone a heretic.

I provided resources for Walkbyfaith but he is not interested in actually learning. He can't rely on a discussion forum to learn his theology. I would suggest he have a meeting with his pastor and turn to scripture for proper teaching.

I was just told yesterday that I believe in false doctrine by an Admin., which is clearly questioning my salvation. But I have thick skin. God knows who I am.

 

[walkbyfaith]

I feel so much better now knowing you don't think I'm a liar.

I never called anyone a heretic. I said that denying God is a person is unorthodox at best and heretical at the worst. (That is a direct quote.) And yes, cults do deny this. It was meant as a warning to turn away from false teachings.

Calling a belief heretical is NOT the same thing as calling someone a heretic.

I provided resources for Walkbyfaith but he is not interested in actually learning. He can't rely on a discussion forum to learn his theology. I would suggest he have a meeting with his pastor and turn to scripture for proper teaching.

I was just told yesterday that I believe in false doctrine by an Admin., which is clearly questioning my salvation. But I have thick skin. God knows who I am.

Amy,

Ther resources you provided (lol) were not the resources requested. Scriptural evidence was requested numerous times, yet you posted nothing of the kind. Instead, you post links to such and such article written by man to prove your belief. I stated before, I am not interested in the opinion of man.....I want Scriptural proof.

I would suggest you have a meeting with your pastor and turn to Scripture for proper teaching as well.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy,

Ther resources you provided (lol) were not the resources requested. Scriptural evidence was requested numerous times, yet you posted nothing of the kind. Instead, you post links to such and such article written by man to prove your belief. I stated before, I am not interested in the opinion of man.....I want Scriptural proof.

I would suggest you have a meeting with your pastor and turn to Scripture for proper teaching as well.

I'm sorry. I was under the impression you were a new believer. Maybe I just dreamed that. If so, you are out of line to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't know me well enough to discern what I consider to be proper teaching. I have been a Christian for many years. That doesn't mean I know it all, but I have a pretty good start. I do know what is orthodox and what is not.
The article I linked for you did give you scripture. Did you look it up?

You would do well to do more listening than insulting.

 

[preacher4truth]

I feel so much better now knowing you don't think I'm a liar.

I never called anyone a heretic. I said that denying God is a person is unorthodox at best and heretical at the worst. (That is a direct quote.) And yes, cults do deny this. It was meant as a warning to turn away from false teachings.

Calling a belief heretical is NOT the same thing as calling someone a heretic.

I provided resources for Walkbyfaith but he is not interested in actually learning. He can't rely on a discussion forum to learn his theology. I would suggest he have a meeting with his pastor and turn to scripture for proper teaching.

I was just told yesterday that I believe in false doctrine by an Admin., which is clearly questioning my salvation. But I have thick skin. God knows who I am.

So, when you say WBF has false doctrine, you're not implying towards WBF what you say Dr. Bob implied to you (that is, calling his salvation into question)? I see it as the exact same thing. If you're doing what you accuse another of, then your implications must then be the same. And I'm not in agreement Dr. Bob called your salvation into question either. Many people have been saved but don't have the same view of the Gospel and soteriology. I think he was saying your view is in error, not your personal salvation.

I attempted to make certain that you knew I was not calling you a liar. If that offends you, then that's on you. I was only trying to be clear since on another thread you assumed I was talking about you. There are unfortunately several on here who clearly do manufacture and love lying.

I can't agree with how you've addressed WBF, even with your disclaimer that calling a person heretic and calling a persons doctrine heresy as two different things. People can read between the lines on that Amy.

I think your post about getting along and the link to the article you provided is a clear example as to why this need not take place, and with that article came something you at least said you desired, that is, to get along with others who don't agree and to be gentle in doing so.

His doctrine isn't false, he just doesn't see it the way you do. He has also used adequate Scriptures for a new believer. If he doesn't want to address God as a "person" that's his decision.

Saying he isn't interested in learning isn't necessary.

- Blessings

 

[walkbyfaith]

I'm sorry. I was under the impression you were a new believer. Maybe I just dreamed that. If so, you are out of line to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

You don't know me well enough to discern what I consider to be proper teaching. I have been a Christian for many years. That doesn't mean I know it all, but I have a pretty good start. I do know what is orthodox and what is not.
The article I linked for you did give you scripture. Did you look it up?

You would do well to do more listening than insulting.

Yeah, because its not insulting to call others beliefs heretical or unorthodox or akin to a cult!!

I guess you know it all, since you've been a Christian all these many years. No room for correction or discussion in your beliefs?

You would do well to do more Bible reading than internet blog reading.

 

[Amy.G]

I guess you know it all, since you've been a Christian all these many years. No room for correction or discussion in your beliefs?

No, but at least I tried to help you understand. I didn't see anyone else helping you.

 

[walkbyfaith]

Thanks for all you 'help'.

Blessings

 

[Aaron]

I dont know where some of you get this stuff. The fact that they are referred to as "He" dont make them a person. I have a dog who is a he, but that dont make him a person.

The Scripture clearly defines god as a Spirit. How can you argue against Scripture?

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Those are Jesus' words. Some other verses:

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

2Co 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Can anyone show me a scripture that says God is a person, other than the vague "He" thing?

A post like this and you don't think you need help? Oh. And Hebrews 1:3 (KJV).

 

[walkbyfaith]

maybe you should read the whole thread before chiming in.

 

[Aaron]

What makes you think I didn't?

 

[walkbyfaith]

At least one person can give a Scriptural response! Thank you (even though you edited your post with a contradiction).

That was the whole point of this entire dialogue was to get a Scriptural response. I stated again and again I wasnt interested in what some internet blog said.

Now please define the term 'person'. The definition given before was that "a person has a will, and a self awareness' or something to that effect. Is this a flesh and blood person? Or something else?