Robert Snow
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I've been a member for weeks!
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Which "camp" is really the defender of Divine Sovereignty?
- Thread starter Skandelon
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I've been a member for weeks!
All of the members were before the foundation of time it seems:smilewinkgrin: We also couldn't help it.:tongue3:
Old Union Brother
New Member
funny stuff :applause::applause:
Robert Snow
New Member
I did my best to stay clear, but I was predestined before the foundation of the world to be a charter member. Therefore, I resigned myself to my fate. :saint:
I'll run against you Amy, and if the Cals/DoGs can vote, I'll win.
This may be a simple view, but our own experience might explain this issue.
Nearly everyone here is a parent. We all want children. Why? Because we want to love them, and we want them to love us.
Do we know they will sin when they come into the world? Yes.
Do we desire that they sin? No.
Do we prevent them from sinning? When they are young, yes. But when they get older we realize they must make their own decisions and be responsible for their own actions.
When they are grown, if they sin are we responsible? No. Even if we were poor parents and set some bad examples, they are mature enough to understand right from wrong and are completely responsible for their own actions.
And this is how I believe it is with God as well. He created us to love us, and he would like to be loved in return. He equips us all with a conscience, by nature we come to understand right from wrong as we mature.
Yes, he knew we would sin, but never desires it. But he is not responsible when we willingly choose to sin.
quantumfaith
Active Member
True zrs, but He also knows, it is their rejection of him that separates them from His love.
The same question to you...why would you have children when there is a good chance they are hated by God and one of the many that are on the path of destruction from before the foundation of the world? Why would you want to love a child that God hates
At least our view is one of justice and where man cannot hold a higher attribute that IS God.
The same question to you...why would you have children when there is a good chance they are hated by God and one of the many that are on the path of destruction from before the foundation of the world? Why would you want to love a child that God hates
At least our view is one of justice and where man cannot hold a higher attribute that IS God.
Thats justice? your saying god saves some people and not others on the basis of good works?
I have eight children, and we knew there was a possibility they could reject Christ and go to hell. We have tried to show them our faith in Jesus is real, and to encourage them to trust Jesus which they have.
All Christian parents must deal with this, there is no absolute guarantee they will believe.
I see some Cals/DoGs here have children, they take the same chance. It is natural for most couples to want children.
The difference between you and me is that I believe God wants all my children saved. You cannot know that, there is a chance, even a likelihood that God chose to pass your children by. I say a likelihood because the scriptures are clear that a vast majority of people will go to hell.
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& I will take that gamble because God is merciful. See now your doing what you said yesterday....providing differences in beliefs instead of looking for sameness. We should not be doing this
I'm not sure how you got works anywhere out of my post. If I have 2 children and God chose one and not the other, I love the child that God hates. No work salvation anywhere in there.
Why create them wouldn't it be better if they were not born? My point was that winmans analogy does not stand very long.
Why would he hate one & not the other?
That is a much greater problem for a Cal/DoG than a non-Cal like me, I believe God wants all my children to be saved. You cannot know this, your doctrine teaches that God only wants to save a small minority of people. With this view there is a high probability your children could go to hell.
In addition, I can raise my children to encourage them to trust Jesus. In your view this would make no difference, you could teach them about Jesus all you want and encourage them to believe, but if God has chosen to pass them by your efforts are meaningless and vain.
If I believed like you, it is likely we would not have had children.
"Jacob I loved, Esau I hated"
I could have one Jacob and one Esau.
It is said that God hates the reprobate before they were even born as He loves the elect before they were ever born.
quantumfaith
Active Member
Why create at all then? If not for free will, if not for unconditional election? Surely, prior to creation, God was completely satisfied within himself. (asiety, I think is the word for it)
Brother, where did you get the small minority of people angle? For all we know it could be a great majority.....we dont know. What we do know is that God is merciful. But thats not what your questioning is it Winman? The question I believe you have that really bothers you is " Why doesnt God Save Everyone?" Am I correct in that reasoning?
In your view he is not that merciful at all. Sure, he is merciful to a few people, but he is hateful toward the majority. There is a much higher chance he will pass your children by in your view.
And because YOU might be elect will not help you, his election is unconditional in your view. He is not going to save your kids as a favor to you.
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