Romans 2:25-29

[Dr. Walter]

Nice gaming of the point but not supported by the facts.

That summarizes your whole position - nothing but gaming of the point. You admit that "fleeing" in verse 23 obviously prevents PHYSICAL death and you cannot possibly deny that verse 21 introduces PHYSICAL DEATH but the verse stuck in the middle you deny has any contextual relationship with PHYSICAL DEATH!

Verse 21 is a WARNING that even family relationships are not safe in those days of persecution. Why warn at all if only persevering rather than fleeing in the face of death is the ONLY WAY to be saved???

Why direct them to "flee" in the face of the threat of physical death if perservering in the face of such is the ONLY way to be saved?

The truth is, that Jesus WARNS them of the closest relationships in verse 21 so that they they will not be imperious to that threat but would "flee" before it concludes with their PHYSICAL death.

The truth is, that Jesus directs them to FLEE in order to persevere such attempts to physically kill them as that is the ONLY way to persevere such attempts.

 

[BobRyan]

Walter -- your argument is sooo weak here it only works as long as you do not quote the text you are trying to bend and wrench.

20 ""For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
21 "" Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
22 "" You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.


Vs 22 is NOT talking about ways to stay alive in persecution. Enduring is not how the saints kept from being killed. Rather the saints in all ages had to ENDURE persecution.

Endurance was never given in all of scripture as a means of escaping persecution.

This is just the obvious part of the text.

No doubt fleeing persecution resulted in the saving of some lives - but enduring persecution was never the way to avoid persecution. Your argument makes no sense.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dr. Walter]

So weak that you cannot deal with it straight forwardly. Again, I am dealing with a seared conscience and any further discussion is a waste of time.

Walter -- your argument is sooo weak here it only works as long as you do not quote the text you are trying to bend and wrench.

20 ""For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
21 "" Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
22 "" You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.


Vs 22 is NOT talking about ways to stay alive in persecution. Enduring is not how the saints kept from being killed. Rather the saints in all ages had to ENDURE persecution.

Endurance was never given in all of scripture as a means of escaping persecution.

This is just the obvious part of the text.

No doubt fleeing persecution resulted in the saving of some lives - but enduring persecution was never the way to avoid persecution. Your argument makes no sense.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

It seems that when your argument runs aground against the text of scripture itself -- you still have the dark ages resort to ad hominem vitriol and ranting left ...

You would think that at some point you see the light as to how ineffective it is to simply rant whenever you find trouble with the text of scripture.

20 ""For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
21 "" Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
22 "" You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.


Vs 22 is NOT talking about ways to stay alive in persecution. Enduring is not how the saints kept from being killed. Rather the saints in all ages had to ENDURE persecution.

Endurance was never given in all of scripture as a means of escaping persecution.

This is just the obvious part of the text.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[Dr. Walter]

Endurance was never given in all of scripture as a means of escaping persecution.

It is not a question of "escaping persecution" but "enduring" persecution. You chop the text off at verse 22 as verse 23 does not help your argument!Anyone can see that you pick and choose what scripture suits you.

Your arguments are weak and lame.