Doctrine of Kenosis, orthodox or heresy?

[kyredneck]

The quote in the OP doesn't reflect the actual doctrine of kenosis.

The traditional kenosis view holds that Christ, while fully maintaining His divinity, set aside aspects of that divinity to assume fleshly form.

For instance Christ had to set aside omnipresence since as an incarnated being He could not have causal access to all places at all moments.

Also there are examples of His setting aside omniscience, e.g. knowing the will of the Father concerning the Second Coming, during His earthly ministry.

BTW, I don't fully buy the kenotic theory. As I translate and explain the Greek there I use the example of a glass of water being poured into an empty glass. That is, imho, the word picture used by Paul.

In the history of interpretation on this passage the Church is evenly split.

What would these be examples of, omnipresence?

Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Jn 1:48

And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? Mt 9:4

And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: Mt 12:25

But he knew their thoughts; and he said to the man that had his hand withered, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth. Lu 6:8

But when Jesus saw the reasoning of their heart, he took a little child, and set him by his side Lu 9:47

 

[webdog]

This is NOT the doctrine of the kenosis; it is a perversion and oed interpretation of the doctrine of kenosis. Anyone can look up the "real deal" and see it has nothing to do with "laying aside of deity".

So the thread may continue to attack and deconstruct this false teaching.

But it is a STRAW MAN LIE to call this the "doctrine" of the kenosis. Grandstanding only brings ridicule. ANY theologian should know better than to mistake this so-called perversion from the truth of God's Word.

Strange, when I google kenosis and kenosis heresy that is exactly what comes about...the emptying of His divinity or putting aside His divine aspects while in human form.

 

[webdog]

I am "the other poster" and I agree with what you wrote, Tom.

While on earth, He became dependent on following His Father and He demonstrated power through prayer instead of unilateral action.

Do you believe Christ was powerless while on earth? Also what is the difference between removing my jacket and setting it aside?

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

You are not wrong...

And in a rush to post (like always) I did not clearly differentiate my point, which was to refute Webdog's position about the return of Christ.

Here is Webdog's post that drove my comments:






Here is Webdog's response to my in ital post:





When I said "set aside His deity" I obviously had the Philippians passage in mind, I cited it. I did not say "removed."

Gottcha!!I often rush to type a response as well-which sometime takes away from my real intentions—if the original quote was yours (which it seems to have been)-I figured u didn’t mean it that way—that’s why I was asking-

 

[Tom Bryant]

I am "the other poster" and I agree with what you wrote, Tom.

While on earth, He became dependent on following His Father and He demonstrated power through prayer instead of unilateral action.

Thanks. That's what I have always believed was the kenosis theory.

 

[glfredrick]

Do you believe Christ was powerless while on earth? Also what is the difference between removing my jacket and setting it aside?

I never said that Christ was powerless while on earth. I said that He deferred to His Father and did what He did through prayer to His Father.

Christ Himself noted His divine nature on more than once occasion, including when He made it clear that no one would "take" His life, but rather that He laid down His life.

Christ did choose, however, to "limit" his power to obedience to His Father (He said on more than one occasion that "I do what I see My Father doing..."). He also (as has been pointed out a lot) was in one place at one time, He was active in time, and there was a DISTINCT difference during the time when He was transfigured.

 

[glfredrick]

Strange, when I google kenosis and kenosis heresy that is exactly what comes about...the emptying of His divinity or putting aside His divine aspects while in human form.

I get the same results when I google Arminian... That's the nature of the web. Should we check in to see what Fred Phelps has to say about it? :smilewinkgrin: