You Said
"No where does scripture say all men without exception have salvation available to them."
Let's see just off the top of my head how quickly can I prove this wrong using nothing but a single verse. Hmmm, John 3:16 just seems to fly into my mind for some reason. Maybe you are not familiar with that verse. Perhaps you should meditate on it for a while and pray for some guidance. Then come back and tell us if you think God has decided to use the terms "whosoever believes" in some clandestine, secretive way that doesn't mean what it says. I will agree that God doesn't give you "free will" to twist the meaning of inspired scripture to suit your personal proclivities.
John 3:16 ESV For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
I imagine God must feel some disappointment and probably some embarrassment with those dogmatic Calvinists who wish to turn salvation into the property of just a select few "elect" and make it a snobbish club so they can look down on others. Surely Jesus came into the world so he could segregate and divide instead of unite and so he could make elitist , Christian pharasies instead of bringing hope to the world. I think if Jesus were here today they would get a right smart admonishment from him about lack of charity and haughty eyes.
"Trash-talking, saying stupid things, lie in blatant manner, you say such junk"... Rippon
If sweet talking could turn rocks into gold Rippon would be a wealthy fellow indeed
Hello Logos,
Let's look at your response. looks like a little sarcasm is possible here!
I will see if I can dial it up for you,as you like it:thumbsup:
Jn 3:16.....what a surprise! Reminds me of this comical youtube post;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OebZJzB7W_c
Then you say;
Maybe you are not familiar with that verse. Perhaps you should meditate on it for a while and pray for some guidance.
Or than again logos,,, maybe I am very familiar with the verse and actually understand what it means. Maybe it could be that Jesus in coming to save the elect children of God and is going to find them inside the nation of Israel,and outside that nation .....worldwide. I hope this idea or concept does not disturb you logos as John mentions this very thing over here;
50nor reason that it is good for us that one man may die for the people, and not the whole nation perish.'
51And this he said not of himself, but being chief priest of that year, he did prophesy that Jesus was about to die for the nation,
52and not for the nation only, but that also the children of God, who have been scattered abroad, he may gather together into one.
Interesting thought ! The elect are found in every tribe and nation.
This wicked apostle John was also a calvinist,and he realized that God had made covenant with Abraham and the gospel was to go to the heathen, worldwide.
Oh No ..wait ,another calvinist Paul teaches the same thing;
8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Let's look at a literal translation of the golden text and see where the emphasis is-
14`And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up,
15that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,
16for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
17For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;
18he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19`And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;
20for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light,
looks like the emphasis is on everyone who is believing.......not whosoever will. I believe the idea is everyone who is believing and continuing to believe....you can check on it if you want.
Then we have this statement;
I imagine God must feel some disappointment and probably some embarrassment with those dogmatic Calvinists who wish to turn salvation into the property of just a select few "elect" and make it a snobbish club so they can look down on others.
Earlier I posted the elect would number more than the stars in heaven,but you insist it will be few?? John and Paul belonged to a snobbish club
Take a deep breathe and work through some historic works and see what the church has seen in scripture before you launch in to a one verse commentary. looks like if we go a few verses down problems are already showing up ,like this;
19`And this is the judgment, that the light hath come to the world, and men did love the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil;
20for every one who is doing wicked things hateth the light, and doth not come unto the light, that his works may not be detected;
21but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.'
you say;
, Christian pharasies instead of bringing hope to the world. I think if Jesus were here today they would get a right smart admonishment from him about lack of charity and haughty eyes.
It is those who have a right view of fallen man,that can deal with the rest of Jn 3....if we read past verse 16.
Fallen men hate the Light of God .Fallen men hate the truth of God.
So much for a "chance" apart from the word preached.
