So "all" doesn't always mean all then.
who is the "we" and "us" in the verse?
True, you have to look at context. Context determines what universal terms like "all" mean.
So, who are the "we" and "us" in the Isaiah passage that pertain to "all"?
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Unlimited Atonement
- Thread starter Jarthur001
- Start date
So, who are the "we" and "us" in the Isaiah passage that pertain to "all"?
Jarthur001
Active Member
all does not always mean all of mankind. Got it.
As I sid before, you may want to go read this passage. Watch very close near the end of the chapter.
Well...we do agree on this. But I have never said other wise have I? But it is clear that all does not always mean all mankind...that is the point.
I would never call you that.
This is what ALL..Calvinist believe. Now ALL Calvinist and Winman. Welcome to the truth. Who ever said it does?all does not always mean all of mankind. Got it.
And yet you presented it as your argument. Better luck next time.
I would never call you that.
I wouldn't care if you did. I have probably seen hundreds of posts where you Cals/DoGs claim to be more intelligent and spiritual than us non-Cals, not impressed, not impressed at all.
But then,from the other side of your mouth you have said that there are passages of Scripture in which the word "all" doesn't pertain to every person.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Simple
When man sees world and all it is what they see when God sees all and world He is talking about all He sees within the preference in which He has decided to save them, those who trust in His Son our Lord even over their own understanding and beliefs that have not come from the word of God. Our beliefs can change, but faith that comes from God through the words of Jesus can never change.
When man sees world and all it is what they see when God sees all and world He is talking about all He sees within the preference in which He has decided to save them, those who trust in His Son our Lord even over their own understanding and beliefs that have not come from the word of God. Our beliefs can change, but faith that comes from God through the words of Jesus can never change.
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David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Out of those hundreds, could you give us just a handful of examples of posts where anyone has claimed to be more intelligent or more spiritual than anyone else?
Speaking personally, although I disagree with much of what you write, certainly don't think of myself as either more intelligent or more spiritual than you. If I have ever written anything to give you that impression, I sincerely apologise.
Going through recent posts from Luke2427 and Preacher4truth should give you plenty for a start.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
But, is it the case that God must love everyone?
Also, is man (mankind) the ultimate object of God's love?
The Archangel
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
God is not in any way morally obligated to love anyone because we deserve it. This is a point upon which we can all agree. He does, however, seem to indicate his love for the whole world and his desire to see all saved.
God has obligated Himself, both morally and judicially, to save whosoever will come (believe). Not because they deserve it, but because He sent forth His Son to be a propitiation for sins of whole world, which is to be applied only through faith. His universal call to "every creature" to faith and repentance obligates him to save whosoever repents and believes. The doctrine that teaches that God only grants this ability to willingly repent and believe to a select few while appearing to call "every creature" is what causes the non-Calvinists to cry, "Foul!"
Besides Himself is their anyone else? And would God break his own command by not loving others as Himself?
I'm in agreement thus far
I don't think God is "appearing to call" but is in fact giving a call. He will save whomever repents and believes. The question is over can a person on their own ever want to come to Christ. I believe in election of the type that says if God didn't elect, nobody would be saved. God is not violating anybody's will by sending them to hell. Many who "cry foul" do so because they look at it at a different perspective. They look at election as a limit of whom can be saved. I look at it the other way around.
Well, that command is to us and not God. Is it a sin for God to think to highly of himself? And I don't believe we are commanded to love all the same. I love my pastor, but I don't love him like I love my wife.
Luke started a thread where he proposed that Calvinists are both more intelligent and spiritual than non-reformed. I was not offended by that, but it seems to be very common among some Calvinists here. They love to tell us non-Cals that we do not understand the scriptures. But many of their arguments are circular logic and false arguments.
You personally have never given me this impression, you seem to be a real gentleman. I don't agree with some of your arguments, but you present your views in a kind and gentle manner. So, I wasn't speaking of you at all.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I think it better if I leave Luke2427 and Preacher4Truth to reply to this if they wish. I cannot speak for them in saying whether or not they really intended to claim to be more intelligent and spiritual than non-Cals, as Winman said.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, Winman.
Tom Butler
New Member
Fair enough, but you did ask...and it is there for your reading.
Here's one fresh off the presses, though... " I don't know that you are or are not "not guilty" in God's eye, for right now, I've not ascertained that you understand the gospel well enough to be assured that you are indeed anything more than "religious." I'm sure that will tick you off, but that is not my point. If you are going to argue that there are innocent people, then class yourself in that class, you probably don't understand the gospel as laid out in the Scriptures." - glfrederick, BB calvinist
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Define smarter?
Stop it Boo Boo & go get the Pickanick basket before the ranger catches on! Hay Hay Hay Hay. :smilewinkgrin:
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Actually, I think we'd both answer that question with "no." But for some reason Calvinist seem to think a man's response to the gospel message of reconciliation brought to the world by divinely appointed apostles, holy inspired scripture and God himself on earth in the flesh is still a response people make "on their own."
Agreed. But he would be violating his word if he sent them their with an excuse (ref. Rom 1). I can't think of a better excuse than, "you didn't elect me."
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Do you mean the thread "Does Calvinism require a higher spiritual intellect, spirituality, and... " If so, I would say, to set the record straight, that that thread was started by R. Lawson, not Luke.
I have just looked at the 38 threads started by Luke, but I could not see one in which he made the proposal that "Calvinists are both more intelligent and spiritual than non-reformed."