It's ALL from HIM!

[webdog]

"God can save apart from faith."

I'm not one to beat around the bush. This statement IS garbage, and I'm not sure how much support you think you are going to get in calling it anything but.

 

[Luke2427]

Bro. Luke,

I will try to put this is as few words as possible, so that there is no confusion in what I just stated.

First off, when we are born into this world(I m"death sentence" was already pronounced upon our flesh because of what Adam did WAY back in the Garden. This is what brought about the "fall"(which you already know), and by this "fall", all will die in Adam. So Adam's transgression is what will cause me to breathe my last breath when God see fit to take out of this "low ground of sorrow".

You did not answer the question- at all.

Do babies need the blood of Christ to get into heaven or is it that they have no sin that requires blood?

 

[webdog]

Do babies need the blood of Christ to get into heaven or is it that they have no sin that requires blood?

What say you? They don't need faith according to you...so why do they need anything?

 

[Luke2427]

"God can save apart from faith."

I'm not one to beat around the bush. This statement IS garbage, and I'm not sure how much support you think you are going to get in calling it anything but.

How do babies get into heaven, webdog? You believe they do, right?

But you believe they are not sinners? Is that right? Because that is not orthodox.

But if you believe they are sinners and they still go to heaven- then how? Does the week old infant place faith in the death burial and resurrection of Christ?

 

[Luke2427]

What say you? They don't need faith according to you...so why do they need anything?

That's an ignorant question.

Every sinner needs the blood of Christ to get into heaven.

That they don't need faith is not even remotely connected to the idea that they don't need Christ's blood.

That's an ignorant question based on a bad non sequitur.

 

[webdog]

How do babies get into heaven, webdog? You believe they do, right?

We've discussed this already...don't pretend to have amnesia now.

But you believe they are not sinners? Is that right? Because that is not orthodox.

The one who says God saves apart from faith calling someone out on orthodox? Really? What is orthodox is a sinner being defined rightly as one who sins.

But if you believe they are sinners and they still go to heaven- then how?

Guilty people go to hell, people found not guilty don't. It's a simple concept.

Does the week old infant place faith in the death burial and resurrection of Christ?

Why would they need to? You even state in your view they do not have to in order to be saved.

 

[webdog]

That's an ignorant question.

Every sinner needs the blood of Christ to get into heaven.

That they don't need faith is not even remotely connected to the idea that they don't need Christ's blood.

That's an ignorant question based on a bad non sequitur.

Well, you deny the biblical teaching that sinners must be saved by grace through faith...why is it ignorant? Were there some Israelites during passover that had the blood of the sacrifice applied to the doorposts in some mysterious way but how God told them?

 

[Luke2427]

We've discussed this already...don't pretend to have amnesia now.

I have never discussed this with you. Are you ashamed to post your beliefs here now?

The one who says God saves apart from faith calling someone out on orthodox? Really? What is orthodox is a sinner being defined rightly as one who sins.

That men are not born sinners is not an orthodox Christian position.

Mainstream Protestantism

The notion of original sin as interpreted by Augustine of Hippo was affirmed by the Protestant Reformer John Calvin. Calvin believed that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception. This inherently sinful nature (the basis for the Calvinistic doctrine of "total depravity") results in a complete alienation from God and the total inability of humans to achieve reconciliation with God based on their own abilities. Not only do individuals inherit a sinful nature due to Adam's fall, but since he was the federal head and representative of the human race, all whom he represented inherit the guilt of his sin by imputation. Redemption by Jesus Christ is the only remedy.

John Calvin defined original sin in his Institutes of the Christian Religion as follows:

Original sin, therefore, seems to be a hereditary depravity and corruption of our nature, diffused into all parts of the soul, which first makes us liable to God's wrath, then also brings forth in us those works which Scripture calls "works of the flesh" (Gal 5:19). And that is properly what Paul often calls sin. The works that come forth from it--such as adulteries, fornications, thefts, hatreds, murders, carousings--he accordingly calls "fruits of sin" (Gal 5:19-21), although they are also commonly called "sins" in Scripture, and even by Paul himself.[41]

The Methodist Church, founded by John Wesley, upholds Article VII in the Articles of Religion in the Book of Discipline of the Methodist Church:

Original sin standeth not in the following of Adam (as the Pelagians do vainly talk), but it is the corruption of the nature of every man, that naturally is engendered of the offspring of Adam, whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness, and of his own nature inclined to evil, and that continually.[42]

Guilty people go to hell, people found not guilty don't. It's a simple concept.
Why would they need to? You even state in your view they do not have to in order to be saved.

All are guilty in Adam. I don't know of any Protestant, Catholic or Eastern orthodox church that denies this. In history only the Pelagians to my knowledge which were damnable heretics.

 

[Luke2427]

Well, you deny the biblical teaching that sinners must be saved by grace through faith...why is it ignorant? Were there some Israelites during passover that had the blood of the sacrifice applied to the doorposts in some mysterious way but how God told them?

Another ignorant question. What does that have to do with anything?

To try to use a picture or a type to demand the specifics of a soteriolgical position is silly.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Always fun to see folks get along so well and controversial topics.