Sin Nature?

[DHK]

Yes, but you said this is "spiritual death". I would disagree with this term, we do not pass into and out of spiritual life every time we sin. Once you are born again, you have spiritual life forever.

You can disagree all you want. From the very beginning I defined my terms. Death in the Bible means separation. Physical death is when the spirit is separated from the body. Spiritual death for an unsaved person is when the spirit is separated from God.

However a believer can experience spiritual death also. It is being separated from God spiritually. He doesn't lose his salvation. The Holy Spirit remains with him. But his fellowship with God is affected. He is separated by his own sin. Say what you will, but sin separates us from God. We no longer have the fellowship that we ought to have with God.

If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me. (Psalm 66:18)
--That is separation--when the Lord does not hear.
Separation = death. The two are synonymous as they are defined in the Bible. You simply don't like the definition and can't cope with it.

Of course I sin, that is not the point, the point is that the Holy Spirit never leaves the believer, the believer does not experience "spiritual death" every time he sins. If this were so, if you died while sinning without a chance to repent, you would lose your salvation. This is what Pentacostals believe.

There you go on your temper tantrum again making false accusations. Read what I posted.
I never said a person loses their salvation.
I never said that the Holy Spirit leaves the believer.
I said if you sin, until you repent of your sin, you do not have fellowship with God. Sin separates you from God. That is an eternal principle taught throughout all the Bible: OT to the end of NT. Sin separates one from God. Separation is death. Death is defined in the scriptures as separation, thus it is spiritual death. Get right with God and be spiritually alive.

We have many "spiritually dead" Christians" in our churches today. Just look around and see.

 

[Winman]

You can disagree all you want. From the very beginning I defined my terms. Death in the Bible means separation. Physical death is when the spirit is separated from the body. Spiritual death for an unsaved person is when the spirit is separated from God.

However a believer can experience spiritual death also. It is being separated from God spiritually. He doesn't lose his salvation. The Holy Spirit remains with him. But his fellowship with God is affected. He is separated by his own sin. Say what you will, but sin separates us from God. We no longer have the fellowship that we ought to have with God.

If I regard iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear me. (Psalm 66:18)
--That is separation--when the Lord does not hear.
Separation = death. The two are synonymous as they are defined in the Bible. You simply don't like the definition and can't cope with it.

There you go on your temper tantrum again making false accusations. Read what I posted.
I never said a person loses their salvation.
I never said that the Holy Spirit leaves the believer.
I said if you sin, until you repent of your sin, you do not have fellowship with God. Sin separates you from God. That is an eternal principle taught throughout all the Bible: OT to the end of NT. Sin separates one from God. Separation is death. Death is defined in the scriptures as separation, thus it is spiritual death. Get right with God and be spiritually alive.

We have many "spiritually dead" Christians" in our churches today. Just look around and see.

First, I don't have temper tantrums ever. Never had them when I was a kid, don't have them now. I can be sarcastic, and often am.

But we will have to agree to disagree, death means a permanent separation, not temporary. Unless a person believes on Christ, they are permanently separated from God. The use of the word death in the scriptures does have some similarities to physical death. Once your soul and spirit leave your physical body, it is permanent, or at least until the resurrection.

It is not worth fussing over, I understand your view and agree with it.

 

[jbh28]

First, I don't have temper tantrums ever. Never had them when I was a kid, don't have them now. I can be sarcastic, and often am.

But we will have to agree to disagree, death means a permanent separation, not temporary. Unless a person believes on Christ, they are permanently separated from God. The use of the word death in the scriptures does have some similarities to physical death. Once your soul and spirit leave your physical body, it is permanent, or at least until the resurrection.

It is not worth fussing over, I understand your view and agree with it.

I cannot believe I'm about to say this....but I'm actually in agreement with Winman

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! :BangHead:

We are spiritually dead until we are alive in Christ. Once we are alive in Christ, we are NEVER spiritually dead.

 

[Winman]

I cannot believe I'm about to say this....but I'm actually in agreement with Winman

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! :BangHead:

We are spiritually dead until we are alive in Christ. Once we are alive in Christ, we are NEVER spiritually dead.

Hey, Dr. Bob agreed with me today, miracles really do happen!

 

[kyredneck]

Hey, Dr. Bob agreed with me today, miracles really do happen!

....be bery bery careful, agreeing with Calvin could be next.....

 

[HankD]

Jesus body was a special case.

Were any of us born of a virgin having been overshadowed by the Holy Spirit?

We are not given many details concerning His conception apart from the fact that Mary was a virgin at His conception and that conception was an act of God Himself.

One thing we do know, only males have the Y chromosome which apparently goes back to Adam.

Jesus was not born of a Y chromosome being (God is a Spirit).

So did Jesus have the Y chromosome?​

If He did, then it was supplied by God and not Adamic DNA/RNA which is worth pondering.​

Y-chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) is a type of DNA that is only carried by men and is only inherited from their fathers.

Men who share a common paternal ancestor will have virtually the same Y-DNA, even if that male ancestor lived many generations ago.
...

Women, on the other hand, do not have Y-DNA. They neither inherit it from their fathers nor pass it down to their sons. In other words, a grandson does not inherit Y-DNA from his mother's father.

Found online in the public domain at : http://www.smgf.org/pages/ychromosome.jspx

HankD​

 

[Aaron]

Christ's body wasn't special. No more special than Adam's. If Adam had a Y chromosome, then Christ had one.

 

[HankD]

Christ's body wasn't special. No more special than Adam's. If Adam had a Y chromosome, then Christ had one.

OK then He had a different conception/birth than any one of us.

I didn't exactly say He had no Y chromosome but was presenting the rhetorical case that it was supplied by God.

HankD

 

[quantumfaith]

Christ's body wasn't special. No more special than Adam's. If Adam had a Y chromosome, then Christ had one.

Speculation, but so is the other. We simply do not know the genetic structure of Jesus, not that it would matter anyway.

 

[Amy.G]

Thank you Hank.

 

[webdog]

Jesus body was a special case.

Were any of us born of a virgin having been overshadowed by the Holy Spirit?

We are not given many details concerning His conception apart from the fact that Mary was a virgin at His conception and that conception was an act of God Himself.

One thing we do know, only males have the Y chromosome which apparently goes back to Adam.

Jesus was not born of a Y chromosome being (God is a Spirit).

So did Jesus have the Y chromosome?​

If He did, then it was supplied by God and not Adamic DNA/RNA which is worth pondering.​

HankD​

Based on this, Adam did not have a Y chromosome.

 

[Amy.G]

Based on this, Adam did not have a Y chromosome.

He also had no sin nature.

 

[webdog]

He also had no sin nature.

True, and he wouldn't have died if sin had never entered the world. Christ's body was under the curse (as ours), hence His pain, suffering and death.

 

[quantumfaith]

True, and he wouldn't have died if sin had never entered the world. Christ's body was under the curse (as ours), hence His pain, suffering and death.

Webdog,

Where are all the scripture references that "death" (physical death) is the result of the fall of man? I am aware of Romans 5, and here (IMO) it could still be meaning "separation" rather than physical death.

Assistance please. Thanks in advance.

 

[HankD]

True, and he wouldn't have died if sin had never entered the world. Christ's body was under the curse (as ours), hence His pain, suffering and death.

Like I said it needs to be pondered.

Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.​

Come to your own conclusion.

My conclusion (apart from the details we are not told) is:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

HankD​

 

[quantumfaith]

Like I said it needs to be pondered.

Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.​

Come to your own conclusion.

My conclusion (apart from the details we are not told) is:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:​

​

HankD​

Hank, I do not know greek, is the greek here emphatic in meaning "physical death"?

 

[HankD]

Hank, I do not know greek, is the greek here emphatic in meaning "physical death"?

Hi quantum,

My feeling is that "death" here as in other places is all one package, deliverance from the physical aspect of death to come at the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 1

9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

HankD​

 

[webdog]

Hi quantum,

My feeling is that "death" here as in other places is all one package, deliverance from the physical aspect of death to come at the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 1

9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

HankD​

I agree...this is the veil of the curse that is over the entire universe.

 

[quantumfaith]

Hi quantum,

My feeling is that "death" here as in other places is all one package, deliverance from the physical aspect of death to come at the resurrection.

2 Corinthians 1

9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:
10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

HankD​

I do understand that, the "duble entendre" nature of death. However, in the garden, it seems as though physical death was directly related to being banned from the Tree of Life, perhaps indicating God did not "originally design" us for eternal physical existence. And stating the obvious, the pronouncement of "ye shall surely die" was not immeadiate, but seems to me to be more in line with "spiritual death" separation from fellowship with God.

 

[webdog]

I do understand that, the "duble entendre" nature of death. However, in the garden, it seems as though physical death was directly related to being banned from the Tree of Life, perhaps indicating God did not "originally design" us for eternal physical existence. And stating the obvious, the pronouncement of "ye shall surely die" was not immeadiate, but seems to me to be more in line with "spiritual death" separation from fellowship with God.

If man (being made in God's image) was not created to live eternally, how could His creation been deemed "very good"?