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Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

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webdog

webdog

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Sure. Your eyes haven't yet been opened to the truth.
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Strange, since I've been there and back. Maybe the next time it will be REALLY true, right?
It's in regard to the condition of man. You are of the belief that some are better than others, and you include yourself in the group that are better. You do not believe that left to yourself you love darkness better than light. You believe you love light and that you were born loving light, and by virtue of that you're a better man than the one who doesn't.
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Based on this steaming pile...you have no clue what I believe and are ignorant to the non reformed position as a whole.
I, on the other hand, conclude ALL under sin, and incapable of loving light without the regeneration of the Holy Ghost.
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...and you can remain in your error for as long as you wish, just "because".
 
Skandelon

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
Aaron said:
God will have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. Take it up with Him.
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We know that's the reasoning behind why some are saved and other are not in your system, but this is question regarding a believer being with held truth. Can you address that please?
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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...he Calvinist is the man who is determined that his intellect, and heart, and will shall remain on their knees continually, and only from this attitude think, and feel, and act. Calvinism is, therefore, that type of thought in which there comes to its rights the truly religious attitude of utter dependence on God and humble trust in his mercy alone for salvation. BB Warfield
 
Jerome

Jerome

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"He who is altogether and only a Calvinist probably only knows half the Truth of God, but he who is willing to take the other side, as far as it is true, and to believe all he finds in the Word of God, will get the whole pearl." —Charles Spurgeon, "Buying the Truth"
 
A

Amy.G

New Member
Aaron said:
Why do you believe a lie? Just because.

Why do you desire to believe a lie? What do the Scriptures say? Why do men love darkness rather than light?
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You are saying that anyone who does not accept Calvinism is believing a lie.

You are also calling non-Cals unbelievers. Those who love darkness are those who love their sin too much to let it go and come to Christ for salvation. You are calling non-Cals unsaved.

Is that how your really feel?
 
Aaron

Aaron

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Guys, cut the foolishness.

The original question was whether or not it mattered that one believed something that wasn't true. The answer is obvious. Of course it matters, especially given the weight that God gives to truth (the weight of Himself), and His abhorrence of untruth, and His disdain for ignorance.

Then the question turned to WHY one would WANT to believe an untruth, and there can be only one answer. Sin. Men love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. There is not one man exempt from that condition. To say otherwise is to say you have no sin. (And herein is a cardinal difference between Calvinists and Noncalvinists. Noncalvinists do not believe the love of darkness is in them.)

Now, nowhere did I say that a Noncalvinist is necessarily unsaved. BUT, he is saved despite his Arminianism, not because of it, and some carry their error to the grave. But it is error, and more die in their sin because of it than are saved despite it. It is NOT the Gospel of Christ.
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
Aaron said:
Guys, cut the foolishness.

The original question was whether or not it mattered that one believed something that wasn't true. The answer is obvious. Of course it matters, especially given the weight that God gives to truth (the weight of Himself), and His abhorrence of untruth, and His disdain for ignorance.

Then the question turned to WHY one would WANT to believe an untruth, and there can be only one answer. Sin. Men love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil. There is not one man exempt from that condition. To say otherwise is to say you have no sin. (And herein is a cardinal difference between Calvinists and Noncalvinists. Noncalvinists do not believe the love of darkness is in them.)

Now, nowhere did I say that a Noncalvinist is necessarily unsaved. BUT, he is saved despite his Arminianism, not because of it, and some carry their error to the grave. But it is error, and more die in their sin because of it than are saved despite it. It is NOT the Gospel of Christ.
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Well, I guess that just settles it then. We can now claim and end to the 400 year old debate.
 
Skandelon

Skandelon

<b>Moderator</b>
Aaron said:
Guys, cut the foolishness.

The original question was whether or not it mattered that one believed something that wasn't true. The answer is obvious. Of course it matters, especially given the weight that God gives to truth (the weight of Himself), and His abhorrence of untruth, and His disdain for ignorance.
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Actually the question was worded in such a way as to inquire about the eternal consequences of non-Calvinists "errors." If Calvinism is correct, no less people will be in heaven as a result of our "errors."

Further, if God is the one responsible for opening our eyes to believe "Calvinistic truth" then our unbelief in Calvinism is really not up to us.

It's just interesting to consider that the effectual work of regeneration will bring the elect to understand the gospel unto salvation, but for some unknown reason doesn't necessarily bring them all to similarly understand salvation Calvinistically.
 
Aaron

Aaron

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Skandelon said:
Actually the question was worded in such a way as to inquire about the eternal consequences of non-Calvinists "errors." If Calvinism is correct, no less people will be in heaven as a result of our "errors."
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It's a Person who saves, not a doctrine. And He will save and save powerfully and fully and eternally. Nothing will separate the elect from the love of God. That's true.

But God hates lies, and liars will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. So to answer the question, "Does it matter?" Oh, it matters.

You're talking like those that Paul condemned for saying we should sin that grace may abound.

Further, if God is the one responsible for opening our eyes to believe "Calvinistic truth" then our unbelief in Calvinism is really not up to us.
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That's right. You're powerless to enlighten yourself.

It's just interesting to consider that the effectual work of regeneration will bring the elect to understand the gospel unto salvation, but for some unknown reason doesn't necessarily bring them all to similarly understand salvation Calvinistically.
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That's just the way it is, isn't? Some are born blind, some are born eunuchs, some are ugly, some are pretty, some healthy, some are sick, some are rich, some are poor, some have this gift or that gift, and there isn't a one of them that chose it.

Are you starting to feel helpless yet? You may not be far from the Kingdom yourself.
 
M

mets65

New Member
There's a lot of people that would say you're saved despite your calvinism, or your saved despite your free will beliefs. I think that's foolishness. You are saved despite our human nature to sin. Not because of some doctrine. I get it, doctrine is extremely important to some people, if so then great. Also I understand that some could care less about doctrine, if so then great. Myself, I'm somewhere in the middle, I'm 25 years old, I'm still discovering things every day. I don't have the wisdom and knowledge a lot of people do on here because they've been studying longer then I've been alive. In my youthfulness I do know without a doubt that salvation is the most important thing in your life. I do not believe TULIP nor anything a freewiller believes denies anyone salvation that wants salvation. I think we all understand that without God's love and grace we would be nothing.
 
R

Robert Snow

New Member
Earth said:
Naaa, not this one....its a little church in a little town. When I went there the pastor....his name was Little...Pastor Little would go out into the night to help bring people to Christ. Id see him out at 1130PM banging on doors of the sick, the poor, the in need. Sad that all his work went into the toilet.
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At least he was obeying the scripture.

For a good rebuttal to some of the errors of Calvinism, listen to Dr. Chuck Missler series entitled, "The Sovereignty of Man," it can be found at Koinonia House.com looking under the 60/40 tab. Very enlightening!
 
D

Don

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron,
On Page 3, you indicate that those that align with Arminius are believing a lie. What lie?

I think you may have identified it around page 4 or 5, when you talked about people believing that they are born in the light, rather than with a sin nature; but Arminius denied Pelagius' teaching of "man is basically good," and was in agreement that man is born with a sin nature.

If that's not the lie you were referencing, would you please clarify?
 
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