Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Oh the irony given the fact that is what your very comment is.

I believe that most if not all Calvinists would agree with that statement. Horrible we should have confidence & convictions in our beliefs right Raspberry

Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Everyone who is not a Calvinist is believing a lie.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

...and you can remain in your error for as long as you wish, just "because".

Ha Ha, bothers ya doesn't it!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, I guess that just settles it then. We can now claim and end to the 400 year old debate.

Quantum, at last your getting it. If it is truly Adam's beliefs then there is no need for debate. He & I are both solid in our beliefs & nothing you say will change it , Period.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

At least he was obeying the scripture.

For a good rebuttal to some of the errors of Calvinism, listen to Dr. Chuck Missler series entitled, "The Sovereignty of Man," it can be found at Koinonia House.com looking under the 60/40 tab. Very enlightening!

Why would I have reason to rebut Calvinism? do you realize thats an insult. What if I got on here & informed you that if you dial into this radio station or go to this or that INTERNET sight & you can find a guy rebutting Free Will...oh Im sorry, the ERRORS Of Free Will.....you do realize that is looked upon as a deliberate action to antagonize?

 

[Rippon]

For a good rebuttal to some of the errors of Calvinism, listen to Dr. Chuck Missler series entitled, "The Sovereignty of Man," it can be found at Koinonia House.com looking under the 60/40 tab. Very enlightening!

Chuck Missler?! You have got to be kidding me. He is an off-kilter guy if ever there was one. His elevator doesn't go to the top floor. He's not playing with a full deck.Get the picture?

I think he's an intelligent,articulate and fascinating talker. He says some true things,and he says some false things in a very interesting way.

I used to listen to some of his conspiracy stuff years ago --not believing it --but to humor a friend. C.M. is an eccentric kind of guy to say the least.

I saw/listened to him on Youtube delivering a message on how sovereign man is. Chuck is a Calvary Chapel man.He wants to pretend that he's playing it straight down the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism.That's because,as he says:"The river of truth runs through the banks of two extremes." Blah,blah,blah.

He's an Arminian-semi-Pelagian in his theology regardless of his claims otherwise.Contrary to what he says -- man is not sovereign --God alone is. There is no such thing as Calvinists believing in double election as he falsely claims. And on and on with his ruminations/lectures.

 

[quantumfaith]

Quantum, at last your getting it. If it is truly Adam's beliefs then there is no need for debate. He & I are both solid in our beliefs & nothing you say will change it , Period.

EWF,

I think you might miss my point. My intention is not to "change" anyone here in BB land, my simple desire is that each of us offer intellectual respect and christian love and charity toward each other. And to dispense with pejorative stabs and the overt attitude that "my theology is superior" to yours, that implying......I know God and you dont. That is my simple point and desire.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Chuck Missler?! You have got to be kidding me. He is an off-kilter guy if ever there was one. His elevator doesn't go to the top floor. He's not playing with a full deck.Get the picture?

I think he's an intelligent,articulate and fascinating talker. He says some true things,and he says some false things in a very interesting way.

I used to listen to some of his conspiracy stuff years ago --not believing it --but to humor a friend. C.M. is an eccentric kind of guy to say the least.

I saw/listened to him on Youtube delivering a message on how sovereign man is. Chuck is a Calvary Chapel man.He wants to pretend that he's playing it straight down the middle between Calvinism and Arminianism.That's because,as he says:"The river of truth runs through the banks of two extremes." Blah,blah,blah.

He's an Arminian-semi-Pelagian in his theology regardless of his claims otherwise.Contrary to what he says -- man is not sovereign --God alone is. There is no such thing as Calvinists believing in double election as he falsely claims. And on and on with his ruminations/lectures.

Yes & Calvary Chapel people are charismatics so I don't know where you folks stand on that. That would be a whole other discussion. My point was whom ever you prance out to dispute a certain belief system you are then offending the other side. now if someone said Im on the fence, could you help to convince me, then fine. However I dont see one person who believes in DoG on this board saying that. Seriously, by doing that I suggest it is yourself your still trying to convince.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF,

I think you might miss my point. My intention is not to "change" anyone here in BB land, my simple desire is that each of us offer intellectual respect and christian love and charity toward each other. And to dispense with pejorative stabs and the overt attitude that "my theology is superior" to yours, that implying......I know God and you dont. That is my simple point and desire.

Dave, I understand your intent. I dont believe that anyone in here tries to broadcast superiority (perhaps Im wrong) but both sides have clear & level reasons for having chosen their belief system & I would go so far as to suggest because each believe that their system is better. It is natural to have those beliefs surface each & every time we discuss differences. That is always going to set the stage for fighting & arguments & hurt feelings which always leads to resentment (on both sides). Perhaps Im wrong in this but I suggest its a sign of insanity to continue to repeat the same mistake time & time again. If we have been doing that for 400 hundred years now, dont you feel the correct Christian thing (as well as intelligent thing) to do is stop doing it......Just stop doing it!

Blessings to all

We have far more important things to discuss.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron,
On Page 3, you indicate that those that align with Arminius are believing a lie. What lie?

The lie that says that God has not specifically chosen certain individuals to be saved.

 

[HankD]

Does it really matter if you're a Calvinist?

No, it only matters that your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

HankD

 

[mets65]

No, it only matters that your name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

HankD

That is all that matters!

 

[webdog]

Ha Ha, bothers ya doesn't it!

Yes, the clear double standard allowed here on the BB does bother me.

 

[Skandelon]

The point of the OP was to consider the FACT that if we (non-Calvinists) are wrong, then no eternal harm is done. We are only doing what God decreed for us to do and we ultimately couldn't have done otherwise. The same number of people will be saved regardless of our "false" teaching.

BUT, if Calvinists are wrong just consider the damage they have done. How many people have they lead astray? How many people have they distracted with their false teaching? How many people have they repulsed from Christ with their difficult doctrines? How many churches have they split? etc etc...

Again, I'm only supposing the eternal effect that each camp would have IF it is wrong. Calvinists, you need to consider that your error is much more grave than ours, so tread lightly and carefully brethren.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The point of the OP was to consider the FACT that if we (non-Calvinists) are wrong, then no eternal harm is done. We are only doing what God decreed for us to do and we ultimately couldn't have done otherwise. The same number of people will be saved regardless of our "false" teaching.

BUT, if Calvinists are wrong just consider the damage they have done. How many people have they lead astray? How many people have they distracted with their false teaching? How many people have they repulsed from Christ with their difficult doctrines? How many churches have they split? etc etc...

Again, I'm only supposing the eternal effect that each camp would have IF it is wrong. Calvinists, you need to consider that your error is much more grave than ours, so tread lightly and carefully brethren.

of course there is a very simple answer that we have sited from the beginning.......We are not wrong.

 

[quantumfaith]

of course there is a very simple answer that we have sited from the beginning.......We are not wrong.

You may not be wrong, I have always conceded to that possibility, but the question still should be pondered by both sides of the fence.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You may not be wrong, I have always conceded to that possibility, but the question still should be pondered by both sides of the fence.

Now you know Ive never done anything lightly son. Ive been thinking on it & praying about it for 22 years. Besides Ive had my own painful runinns with some mighty Pharisaical ole boys intent on slamming my rear end to the ground because in the day I was a mighty sinner (and a heck of allot of fun). I tell you what, It wouldnt have been me going to the Lord, I assure you of that.....but he found me out & He beat the tar out of me & He protected me through my storms. And then He picked me up & He loved me. I did not go to Him. I was incapable...too full of hatred & bitterness, I guess you could say an immovable object. So by His will He turned this Scum of the Earth into one of His own through Christ & His Sacrifice.

So now you want me to concede that my own experiences have no basis, no validity, no worth? I tell you brother in the kindest way that there is sovereign joy every day in my heart. Augustine will also tell you if you read Confessions "During all those years, where was my free will & from what deep retreat was it called forth in a single moment, whereby I gave my neck to thy "Easy Yoke" & my shoulders to thy light burden.

Therefore I can say infatically that Reformed Theology is true belief & I would be willing to die for those convictions. Oh, and my wifes family from Scotland were called Covenenters.....they did die for the Reformed faith. So this is not something we look at casually.

 

[quantumfaith]

Now you know Ive never done anything lightly son. Ive been thinking on it & praying about it for 22 years. Besides Ive had my own painful runinns with some mighty Pharisaical ole boys intent on slamming my rear end to the ground because in the day I was a mighty sinner (and a heck of allot of fun). I tell you what, It wouldnt have been me going to the Lord, I assure you of that.....but he found me out & He beat the tar out of me & He protected me through my storms. And then He picked me up & He loved me. I did not go to Him. I was incapable...too full of hatred & bitterness, I guess you could say an immovable object. So by His will He turned this Scum of the Earth into one of His own through Christ & His Sacrifice.

So now you want me to concede that my own experiences have no basis, no validity, no worth? I tell you brother in the kindest way that there is sovereign joy every day in my heart. Augustine will also tell you if you read Confessions "During all those years, where was my free will & from what deep retreat was it called forth in a single moment, whereby I gave my neck to thy "Easy Yoke" & my shoulders to thy light burden.

Therefore I can say infatically that Reformed Theology is true belief & I would be willing to die for those convictions. Oh, and my wifes family from Scotland were called Covenenters.....they did die for the Reformed faith. So this is not something we look at casually.

In sincere respect and love, I submit that you are "accepting" my post wrongly. I am simply saying, we should all have a degree of confidence about the theology we hold, but always have a heart and spirit open to questioning and revising our cherished positions. If you do not agree, well I am sorry. But that is the way that I feel.

 

[Skandelon]

of course there is a very simple answer that we have sited from the beginning.......We are not wrong.

Pride cometh before the fall. I suppose we are all wrong to some degree with regard to our doctrinal perspective and the people I fear the most are the ones who can't recognize this because of their own arrogance and pride.

Just consider the implications of your response. That is all I ask.

 

[mets65]

Nobody has perfect beliefs in God's eyes, only through his own eyes.

 

[kyredneck]

...what is truly important?....

IMO, in the final analysis, I believe we are/will be judged on how well we live/lived 'the golden rule' while here on earth. Knowing the deep wonderful truths of the scriptures is for the benefit/joy of the Saints. But having your doctrines 'just right' has zilch to do with true religion.