What about the IFB Baptist group?

[Alive in Christ]

Someone on another thread made the statement that he...

...Came out of the IFB darkness

...to join another baptist group.

I asked this question...

I dont know anything about the IFB, other than a moderator on the "other denominations" board is IFB.

Is it ultra ULTRA legalistic or something?

This was at the end part of that thread, and the thread came to an end without my question being answered.

So, I am starting a new topic.

What is it about the IFB that would cause the brother to make that comment?

Thanks


AiC

 

[glfredrick]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

You can find a whole host of other expressions of hatred by chasing down some of the other 999 web sites devoted to this sort of crud.

Oh, and you'll see the info from those web sites crop up here on the board any time some sort of debate erupts where one of their leaders has written a hit piece. I'll not name names, but certain persons on this board just copy and paste their responses without even thinking about what they are saying -- or having the intellectual honesty to actually look up what they read to see if it is true in context.

http://www.ifb1000.com/

 

[Dr. Bob]

IFB (Indepedent Fundamental Baptist) is a generic term that represents no "group" per se. It is simply a status to show no alignment with a national organization like Northern or Southern Baptists, Black Baptists, et al.

There are two basic divisions/types of IFB - those that withdrew from the Southern Baptist Convention and are now "independent"; those that withdrew from the American (Northern) Baptist Convention and are now "independent". Or offshoots and splits of these churches.

Many "independent" Baptist congregations join together "loosely" to support certain schools, mission programs, camps. Some are in "associations" that have certain common doctrine/practice - like the General Assoc of Regular Baptists, Conservative Baptist of America, Assoc of Reformed Baptist Churches, Fundamental Baptist Fellowship, Bible Baptist Fellowship Intl. These still are true "independent" churches even with a level of inter-dependence and cooperative work.

So . . you can see that "x" IFB church might be looney-tune legalism, man-worship, KJVonly, pastor-is-god, lock-step type, while "y" IFB church might be normal. Those of "suthran" backround might have cultural baggage that is missing from "yankee" types.

It is WRONG to think of "IFB" as "monolithic" even in the fundamentals of the faith! We have one that denies the basic fundamental of inspiration (they are an "only" sect) and have changed the historic definition. Others demand dispensational position or a pre-trib return of Christ (never a part of fundamentalism).

Or even in "Baptist", since some have little Baptist polity and procedure.

I try to lump [what I perceive as] the fringe/extreme into the IFB"x" and the rest nominally normal types just as IFB. But sure some of the IFB don't want me in their label, since I am a particular Baptist (calvinistic) with reformed doctrine of grace. LOTS of division; LITTLE unity.

 

[Amy.G]

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm


http://www.ifb1000.com/

WOW!!

I agree with them about Benny Hinn, but the others?

 

[Don]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

You can find a whole host of other expressions of hatred by chasing down some of the other 999 web sites devoted to this sort of crud.

Oh, and you'll see the info from those web sites crop up here on the board any time some sort of debate erupts where one of their leaders has written a hit piece. I'll not name names, but certain persons on this board just copy and paste their responses without even thinking about what they are saying -- or having the intellectual honesty to actually look up what they read to see if it is true in context.

http://www.ifb1000.com/

GL - Any chance we can actually talk about the different independent fundamental baptist "camps" without resorting to over-generalization?

 

[Salty]

WOW!!

I agree with them about Benny Hinn, but the others?

Actually, there are several folks and movements listed that we should be wary of. However, it seems as though he is the only one with the final truth.

As to not hijack this thread on this web page, I have started a new thread

 

[Salty]

and now back to the OP.

When I worked at WAMN-AM in Bluefied, WV; I would meet many pastors - tried to get them to do radio programs (I worked on commission :smilewinkgrin I met two pastors who were both grads of Hyles-Anderson College. Well, I let each pastor know of the other that they were within close proximity of each other - (no more than 20 miles apart) Did they ever have a H-A reunion - Not to my Knowledge, and I did ask....

 

[John of Japan]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

You can find a whole host of other expressions of hatred by chasing down some of the other 999 web sites devoted to this sort of crud.

Oh, and you'll see the info from those web sites crop up here on the board any time some sort of debate erupts where one of their leaders has written a hit piece. I'll not name names, but certain persons on this board just copy and paste their responses without even thinking about what they are saying -- or having the intellectual honesty to actually look up what they read to see if it is true in context.

http://www.ifb1000.com/

Dr. Bob has stated things well. Generalizing about independent Baptists is almost always wrong. The website you link represents a small minority of IFBs. Expressions like "hatred" and "crud" and accusations of intellectual dishonesty do not encourage dialog.

So, in your generalizations do you mean the SBF, FBF, GARB, BBF, WBF, FBC Hammond group, Reformed IFB like Dr. Bob, etc. etc.? There are also many IFB churches not affiliated with any of the above. Some are KJB only, some are not. Some are strong separatist, others are not. A very few list people to separate from as in your link, the great majority do not. They simply want to serve the Lord as best as they can.

 

[idonthavetimeforthis]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

You can find a whole host of other expressions of hatred by chasing down some of the other 999 web sites devoted to this sort of crud.

Oh, and you'll see the info from those web sites crop up here on the board any time some sort of debate erupts where one of their leaders has written a hit piece. I'll not name names, but certain persons on this board just copy and paste their responses without even thinking about what they are saying -- or having the intellectual honesty to actually look up what they read to see if it is true in context.

http://www.ifb1000.com/

"...to this sort of crud" sums this website up for me. Curiosity got the best of me & I looked up the site & almost immediately wished I had not. People who make up websites like that should not be taken seriously (though I have found they are very serious). Wish I hadn't wasted a couple of minutes of my time.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Here is a classical example -- their "hit list"

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/wolves_in_sheep's_clothing.htm

You can find a whole host of other expressions of hatred by chasing down some of the other 999 web sites devoted to this sort of crud.

Oh, and you'll see the info from those web sites crop up here on the board any time some sort of debate erupts where one of their leaders has written a hit piece. I'll not name names, but certain persons on this board just copy and paste their responses without even thinking about what they are saying -- or having the intellectual honesty to actually look up what they read to see if it is true in context.

http://www.ifb1000.com/

Good grief. I clicked the "hit list" link up there.

WOW. Double WOW.

I dont think I have ever seen anything quite like that. It was just overwhelming. They are against.....everything.

EVERYTHING! and EVERYBODY. To stay away from every thing they are against...I would have to DIE.

I'm just...stunned. Its breathtaking.

Whew...

 

[Salty]

Good grief. I clicked the "hit list" link up there.
...I dont think I have ever seen anything quite like that. It was just overwhelming. They are against.....everything.

EVERYTHING! and EVERYBODY. To stay away from every thing they are against...I would have to DIE.
...

I wonder if the author has ever checked out BB.
Naa, if he did we would be listed also:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Alive in Christ]

I looked that up after coming home from our evening service at church.

I am now SOOO thankfull and for the church God has led me to!!! :wavey:

 

[matt wade]

Mainly the fact that they do not play well with others. They tend to stress the INDEPENDENT and FUNDAMENTALIST parts of their name over the Baptist part. Though each congregation is autonomous, as is every Baptist congregation, they seem to dislike EVERYONE but themselves.

Wow...talk about an uninformed, hateful post. You are like the woman whose father beat her, so she decided that all men are evil and became a lesbian.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Salty...

I lost the piece of paper your "2nd" email was on that Ann sent me.

Could you send it to my message box here.

Thanks.

AiC

 

[preachinjesus]

Some of the best people I know are independent, fundamental Baptists.

I have plenty of friends who use the handle "recovering fundamentalist" for a lot reasons. Some of those reasons are explicit, some not so much. Mostly it is an attempt to let people know you are open to reason and respect others. I don't really agree that carte blanc every IFB members does this and think it is a poor mischaracterization.

Another reason is that it sells books and gets people to think you've started to think for yourself. Maybe get some more blog hits.

Ironically is shows, at a certain level, the exact same kind of religiosity that they claim to be departing from by "recovering" from their religious upbringing.

As a whole it seems most who use this just mean to say they endorse a kinder, gentler Christianity. That's not a bad thing. I think it definitely isn't fair to the vast majority of IFB folks. Most are humble, Christ honoring people who work hard, believe in family, and want to live as close to the Bible as possible. That is never a bad thing.

I'm not IFB personally, but know plenty of people who are and continue to be. I don't recommend the phrase.

 

[Tater77]

Sometimes an IFB Church is just a good group of Christians that just want to do things their own way. They can be great functional Churches that affiliate with other Churches for missions and projects. Not always a bad thing.

But then again, most are not like the above. My upbringing in an IFB Church left me scarred and I quit going to Church for over 10 years. Its not possible to generalize but they can range from a little off kilter to downright heresy.

The worst possible teaching I've ever known came from an IFB Church.

 

[glfredrick]

GL - Any chance we can actually talk about the different independent fundamental baptist "camps" without resorting to over-generalization?

I mentioned, as did Bob, the fact that INDEPENDENT Fundamentalist Baptists are autonomous and that means that no two are alike. But they tend toward what I posted, and one site I posted has their top 1000 web sites -- most sharing the same info. That is THEM speaking, not me. I don't have to tear them up. They do fine on their own.

Now, if one can show me the IFB church that is different, I'm all over that. Haven't seen many, however.

 

[glfredrick]

Wow...talk about an uninformed, hateful post. You are like the woman whose father beat her, so she decided that all men are evil and became a lesbian.

Matt, I've had several run ins with IFB people. Every one unpleasant. I got involved with a local "tent meeting" that came to the town where I planted a church. They called me out in public in that meeting (that I helped to host, falsely thinking that they would actually preach the gospel...) because we used guitars in our worship service. I see them against EVERYONE who is not them. I see them lifting up people like Jack Hyles as if he is the Incarnation. I see them distorting known church history, known theological positions, and known men of God like Spurgeon. They (largely) preach a gospel of hate, which is not good news at all, but a perversion of the true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is not I who is doing the "beating" but the IFB.

And, again, as above, if you can show me otherwise, I'll accept that. Just haven't seen many who are actually different and who recognize others for being brothers and sisters in the Lord. Perhaps you are one who is different. I pray so...

 

[TCassidy]

Another ignorant attempt to smear all IFBs with the broad brush of the Xers.

Our church is Independent. Not lorded over by a man made ecclesiastical hierarchy. glfredrick, if you want your church to be lorded over by popes, cardinals, archbishops, etc., so be it. We choose to be under the authority and Headship of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Our church is Fundamental. We believe in the Fundamentals of the Faith.

1. The Deity of Christ
2. The Virgin Birth
3. The Blood Atonement
4. The Bodily Resurrection
5. The Inspiration/infallibility of the Scriptures.

We strongly affirm these great historic foundational truths of the Bible. glfredrick, if you choose to deny those great foundational truths of Christianity, so be it. We choose to affirm them.

Our church is Baptist. We hold to the Baptist Distinctives.

1 B: Biblical authority
2 A: Autonomy of Baptist churches
3 P: Priesthood of all believers
4 T: Two ordinances (Baptism & The Lord's Supper)
5 I: Individual Soul Liberty
6 S: Saved Church Membership
7 T: Two Offices (Pastor and Deacon)
8 S: Separation of church and state

We choose to affirm those great, historic, and Biblical distinctives. glfredrick, if you choose to reject them, so be it. Your choice.

We will pray for you that God opens your eyes and removes the root of bitterness from your heart.

 

[glfredrick]

Another ignorant attempt to smear all IFBs with the broad brush of the Xers.

Our church is Independent. Not lorded over by a man made ecclesiastical hierarchy. glfredrick, if you want your church to be lorded over by popes, cardinals, archbishops, etc., so be it. We choose to be under the authority and Headship of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Our church is Fundamental. We believe in Fundamentals of the Faith.

1. The Deity of Christ
2. The Virgin Birth
3. The Blood Atonement
4. The Bodily Resurrection
5. The Inspiration/infallibility of the Scriptures.

We strongly affirm these great historic foundational truths of the Bible. glfredrick, if you choose to deny those great foundational truths of Christianity, so be it. We choose to affirm them.

Our church is Baptist. We hold to the Baptist Distinctives.

1 B: Biblical authority
2 A: Autonomy of Baptist churches
3 P: Priesthood of all believers
4 T: Two ordinances (Baptism & The Lord's Supper)
5 I: Individual Soul Liberty
6 S: Saved Church Membership
7 T: Two Offices (Pastor and Deacon)
8 S: Separation of church and state

We choose to affirm those great, historic, and Biblical distinctives. glfredrick, if you choose to reject them, so be it. Your choice.

We will pray for you that God opens your eyes and removes the root of bitterness from your heart.

Tom...

First, wherever have I spoken out against the CRITICAL items that you list above?

Second, have I not mentioned "AUTONOMOUS" on more than one occasion?

Third, I posted a link PRODUCED BY IFB and made public by IFB. They can stand or fall based on their content -- and the CONTENT on that site and many others that I have looked up confirms what I said in my original post.

Fourth, there is a HUGE difference between the FUNDAMENTALS (which I hold!) and FUNDAMENTALIST (or "istic"). I would presume that you know the difference. But if you do not, I would suggest some homework.

Fifth, I ALSO said, that if someone can show me an IFB that is otherwise, I'll gladly (GLADLY!) accept that.

So, why are your panties all twisted?

I'm not the bitter one. But I've sure ate my share of bitter fruits from IFB people over the years.

And, where ["French" edited] did you arrive at the conclusion that I would, in any way, support "your church to be lorded over by popes, cardinals, archbishops, etc., so be it..." Saying something like that can only come from the pit of hell...