Steadfast Fred
Active Member
They had an unregenerate mind prior to being rejected.
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I got myself in trouble
- Thread starter Amy.G
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So you and I are lost?
It does not say they were rejected permanently.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Everywhere I find an instance of God rejecting someone in the Bible, He didn't later accept them. What makes you think Romans 1 is any different?
The chapter uses plural pronouns: "them."
I don't believe the chapter is speaking of individuals per se, but rather of larger groups of people who have turned away from God over a longer period of time. Let me give an example.
In the first century the northern part of Africa was a great center of Christianity. Alexandria had one of the largest Christian libraries in the world. Missionaries were sent out from that area.
After some time that part of the area began to reject Christianity. They turned from the Creator and started worshiping the creature. They turned to animism. They were idolaters. Everything that Romans chapter one described came true.
They did not repent in spite of truth revealed, and truth that had been revealed. Now look at the northern Africa. It is even harder to reach. All those nations turned from their animistic religion to Islam, a satanic inspired religion whose God is anti-Christ; a religion that is bent on pushing Israel into sea, and destroying Christianity in any way that it can.
God gave them over;
God gave them over;
God gave them over.
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:32)
I don't believe the chapter is speaking of individuals per se, but rather of larger groups of people who have turned away from God over a longer period of time. Let me give an example.
In the first century the northern part of Africa was a great center of Christianity. Alexandria had one of the largest Christian libraries in the world. Missionaries were sent out from that area.
After some time that part of the area began to reject Christianity. They turned from the Creator and started worshiping the creature. They turned to animism. They were idolaters. Everything that Romans chapter one described came true.
They did not repent in spite of truth revealed, and truth that had been revealed. Now look at the northern Africa. It is even harder to reach. All those nations turned from their animistic religion to Islam, a satanic inspired religion whose God is anti-Christ; a religion that is bent on pushing Israel into sea, and destroying Christianity in any way that it can.
God gave them over;
God gave them over;
God gave them over.
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:32)
Proverbs 29
1He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
1He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
Why, don't you know that without remedy means they will be restored down the road?
At least, if we are to believe Havensdad, that is.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
I find the Hebrew definition for 'reprobate' interesting.
Jeremiah 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
The Hebrew reveals that one that is reprobate is despised and rejected by the Lord. The Greek seems to agree with the Hebrew since it uses the words 'cast away' and 'rejected'.
Jeremiah 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
The Hebrew reveals that one that is reprobate is despised and rejected by the Lord. The Greek seems to agree with the Hebrew since it uses the words 'cast away' and 'rejected'.
Then you agreed with Amy but then told her she was wrong? Sorry, too much for me to figure out. Take care and God bless.
I'm really surprised, maybe I missed it but did anyone quote this scripture:?
Hebrews 6
Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again untorepentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
HankD
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again untorepentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
HankD
Amy—what were u thinking speakin tha truth that way! How dare u use the Bible to prove spiritual reality---I thought we all knew by now—that its what makes sense to our human emotion that should be considered dogma—not hard to understand Pauline theology!
Don’t worry sister—I myself run into this mindset from time to time & can only pray & research the topic with good commentaries to know that somethings maybe hard to accept-- but that does not make them any less of a biblical truth. Keep up ur in-depth biblical studies regardless of who can accept the genuine reality of God’s Word!No. And I am proud of you (for what that may be worth to you).
What I am saddened by is the shallowness of these ladies who do not know that God does this.
N
NE who has been a Christian for a few years or more should not know this.Anyone who thinks God would NOT do this has made a false god to suit them rather than submitting themselves to the God of the Bible.
Good job, Amy.
No. And I am proud of you (for what that may be worth to you).
What I am saddened by is the shallowness of these ladies who do not know that God does this.
N
Anyone who thinks God would NOT do this has made a false god to suit them rather than submitting themselves to the God of the Bible.
Good job, Amy.
It is this gobbly-gook Christianity that is killing our culture.
It is Oprah Winfrey, feel-good idolatry.
Because we believe that Christians are always supposed to be syrupy sweet the next thing is that our theology is supposed to be syrupy sweet.
NEITHER is true.
But when you accept one the next is destined to follow.
Oprah Winfrey and Joel Osteen and others like them have rendered the church in America impotent and toothless. She is a lion, de-clawed and de-fanged.
And until she gets her claws and teeth back she is WORTHLESS in this culture of ours. She is no King of the Jungle as she should be- as she once was in the days of the Puritans and the Great Awakening. She is pussy cat who sits in the lap of this culture and is petted and fed by it rather than leading it.
It will not be until the teeth return to our theology and the claws to our spirits that we will be a force in this nation again.
No, again, I did not agree with Amy. I agree, to a point, that it is not about Christians, and the need for them to watch their "p's and q's" so to speak. However, Amy went on to say this...
"but was about people who repeatedly reject God even though He has revealed Himself to them. Eventually He will give them up or cut them off so to speak as a judgment against them and at that point it is impossible for them to seek God or repent, leaving them lost."
Now, I would agree with this, if she were applying this to all of humanity. This is not about "people" who repeatedly reject God, as if God, presently, keeps begging you to come and at some point says "Well, you are just too evil for me to save now." It is about how all of humanity has rejected God. Paul then goes on, for pretty much the entire book of Romans, describing how Christ is the answer for this mass of humanity. That God "gave them over" to their passions, that they are now in slavery to the world, and only the blessed Christ can free them. It is a teaching on total depravity, not about the limits of God's patience with individuals today.
That is not what Amy meant.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience--
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
So, what, God saved you because you weren't as bad as these folks in Romans 1? Just a great guy aren't you? :tonofbricks:
But not all of humanity has rejected God. I have always believed in God even before I was saved. I have always believed the bible to be the word of God. I did not reject the light that God has given every man which is the revelation of God as creator.
When a person rejects the creator, he starts a downward spiral into idolatry and every kind of sin there is. His heart is darkened, he becomes a fool. The fool has said in his heart there is no God.
Jesus said that to him who has more will be given, but to him who has not even what he has will be taken away. I believe that is exactly what Paul is talking about.
However, this does fly in the face of Calvinism.
John Calvin's Commentary on the OP passage:
Contrast the above views with the following:
Ligon Duncan preaches on the passage:
Amy,
Do not take this the wrong way, but this is an extremely scary statement. Its as if you are saying you were saved, because you were not as bad as others.
There was either a time that you rejected God, and had to repent and be saved, or else our God is a liar. Ephesians 2:3 says this explicitly; we ALL did this (rejected God for the world).
You need to read that verse in its proper context. What was "given?"
However, this does fly in the face of Calvinism.
It certainly does! Calvinism says we are saved by grace, not because we were better than other people!
Haven, are you saying that God doesn't harden hearts? Because I sure have read where God has done that many times.
Pharaoh's heart was hardened. In the last days God will send delusion and people will believe the lie. This is a judgment against those who willingly reject God fully and totally. They have hardened their own hearts so that God gives them over to exactly what they want, which is to have absolutely nothing to do with God.
Pharaoh's heart was hardened. In the last days God will send delusion and people will believe the lie. This is a judgment against those who willingly reject God fully and totally. They have hardened their own hearts so that God gives them over to exactly what they want, which is to have absolutely nothing to do with God.
I'll quote Albert Barnes.
Matt 13:12
Verse 12. Whosoever hath, etc. This is a proverbial mode of speaking. It means that a man who improves what light, grace, and opportunities he has, shall have them increased. From him that improves them not, it is proper that they should be taken away. The Jews had many opportunities of learning the truth, and some light still lingered among them. But they were gross and sensual, and misimproved them, and it was a just judgment that they should be deprived of them. Superior knowledge was given to the disciples of Christ; they improved it, however slowly, and the promise was that it should be greatly increased.
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