Universalism

[MojoTurbo]

well we can watch this and see if he answers these questions himself...

A note from Rob...

I'm thriled to let you know I have a new book coming out called Love Wins.
(http://robbell.com/lovewins)

It releases on March 15 and the night before (March 14) night I'll be
speaking in New York City.

The event will be at 7pm and it will be streamed live at
http://www.livestream.com/lovewins


I'll be taking questions.

For more about the New York City event, click here:
http://lovewins.eventbrite.com/

For more about the live-streaming portion, click here:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=101415176607518#!/event.php?eid=101415176607518

See you then,

rob

 

[mandym]

1.) Book blurbs are made to be provocative, and the author of the book rarely has any say in them. (FYI, I used to be in book publishing.)
2.) Media companies know that they can build sales for a product by creating a controversy among Christians because so many are unthinking, knee-jerk reactionaries who are happy to whine and protest instead of investigating things carefully and soberly. If that is what they are doing here, I wouldn't be surprised if Bell switches publishers after he fulfills his contract.
3.) Many theologians and Christian thinkers have noted that those who reject the grace of God willingly choose hell. God in his love does just about everything possible to keep humankind from destruction except to violate human free will. Unless you are a hyperCalvinist, God does not sentence souls to hell - people choose it because they cannot bear to come to God. C.S. Lewis' analogy, "The Great Divorce" is a brilliant depiction of this truth. The door to hell is shut from the inside.


Absolutely. Eternal life begins when we enter into the Kingdom of God that exists among us now. We enter the Kingdom of God through Christ (John 14:6).

If a publisher of a book I wrote lied about the content and presented me as holding to heresy just to get attention I would straighten that out real fast. But I doubt that is the case here. And I have ordered the book.

 

[Grasshopper]

This might be useful to some:

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=4502

Calvinist haters might want to skip it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

well we can watch this and see if he answers these questions himself...

A note from Rob...

I'm thriled to let you know I have a new book coming out called Love Wins.
(http://robbell.com/lovewins)

It releases on March 15 and the night before (March 14) night I'll be
speaking in New York City.

The event will be at 7pm and it will be streamed live at
http://www.livestream.com/lovewins


I'll be taking questions.

For more about the New York City event, click here:
http://lovewins.eventbrite.com/

For more about the live-streaming portion, click here:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=101415176607518#!/event.php?eid=101415176607518

See you then,

rob

With that crazy mentality, yea he will sell books in NYC. Yea thats the goal & his selecting NYC 1st is the right move...LOL Can you say "Ca Ching" :smilewinkgrin:

 

[quantumfaith]

Did anyone here read what I said? I said, I have never even heard of Rob Bell. Then you assault me with cute little lies and ask my view on hell!

I was intrigued by the video, but it seems to me that you folk know a lot more about Bell than I do. As far as Piper is concerned, I know he is a Calvinist, enough said.

Robert, that is just the way it is. If you say anything even remotely disparaging about any well know proponent of DoG, you will get "zinged", even if it is obviously only your personal opinion.

 

[quantumfaith]

Wouldn't it be nice if Christians actually waited to read Bell's book before spreading rumors all over the Internet that he advocated universalism?

Wouldn't it be nice if influential Christian leaders such as Piper would show some Christian maturity and caution and not Tweet, "Farewell, Rob Bell", and lend his influence to the people who are jumping the gun to condemn?

I haven't followed the controversy very closely simply because it makes me angry and puts me in the position of listening to listening to idle talk which is condemned in scripture, but I did read an article in Christianity Today last week that quoted someone who had actually read the book and said quite plainly that Bell did not advocate universalism.

If this is true, I suspect there will be few, if any apologies, and the charges will not go away because, in my experience, Christians of influence rarely back off of public assertions they have made because it might undermine their credibility.

We are not to be people of lies (like the father of lies) but to be people of truth (like Jesus, Who is Truth).

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Baptist Believer]

If a publisher of a book I wrote lied about the content...

There's at least one or two ways that the publisher could have told the truth about what is in the book and it not be heresy in any way.

...and presented me as holding to heresy...

I still don't see what is allegedly heretical about the publisher's blurb, even with all of the negative hype that alleged Christian leaders/bloggers are giving the book.

...just to get attention I would straighten that out real fast.

I guess you've been fortunate enough to not have had someone do a smear campaign against you. There's a point at which trying to answer the charges actually gives the charges validity. His enemies will merely twist his words and then when the book comes out make claims that Bell changed the text at the last moment to take out the heretical parts (which is essentially ridiculous given the time it takes to get a book ready for publication, reserve press time, review galley proofs, do a press check, and run enough books for a launch.)

In my opinion, if he is innocent of the charges against him, the best thing he can do is to give his critics enough rope to hang themselves and then let the book come out and everyone can see (at least those who care about what is true) that his critics were wrong.

On at least four occasions in my life, I've had people wage smear campaigns against my character/stands/teachings. Unfortunately, things were not as clear cut and objective as the content of a book. I had to just leave things to God instead of spending time defending myself and in at least three of the cases I think my reputation recovered. That when I learned that leaders, at least leaders who take unpopular stands, don't have the luxury of being concerned about their reputation. It has to be submitted to Christ and He will eventually work things out for His glory.

There are always going to be critics and accusers, especially in religious circles. The evil one ensures that.

But I doubt that is the case here. And I have ordered the book.

By the end of the month, the verdict will be in. And don't be surprised if his accusers are wrong, they don't apologize, and someone floats the fantasy that Bell secretly revised the book at the last minute.

 

[Rippon]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

About 588 of your 1,588 posts have been the thumbs up sign. Not so enlightening. Have you completely endorsed everything that a poster writes in a particular post? Even I pick out the portions with which I agree.

 

[quantumfaith]

About 588 of your 1,588 posts have been the thumbs up sign. Not so enlightening. Have you completely endorsed everything that a poster writes in a particular post? Even I pick out the portions with which I agree.

You have no idea how much I appreciate your self appointed role as the "thumbs up" police.

 

[Grasshopper]

Robert, that is just the way it is. If you say anything even remotely disparaging about any well know proponent of DoG, you will get "zinged", even if it is obviously only your personal opinion.

I take it to mean he would be closer to Bell's views than Piper's.

I've never heard of Rob Bell, but I would certainly like to read this book. As a added plus, Piper has dismissed him. This, in my opinion speaks well of Bell

 

[quantumfaith]

I take it to mean he would be closer to Bell's views than Piper's.

I've never heard of Rob Bell, but I would certainly like to read this book. As a added plus, Piper has dismissed him. This, in my opinion speaks well of Bell

I too have never heard of Rob Bell, thus I have no opinion. And would not give one unless I knew something of him and/or his position. As for Piper, I respect his scholarship and intellect, although I am not in the same "theological" camp as is he.

 

[Rippon]

You have no idea how much I appreciate your self appointed role as the "thumbs up" police.

Just doing my duty on the BB beat.

 

[Baptist Believer]

You have no idea how much I appreciate your self appointed role as the "thumbs up" police.

I, for one, appreciate well-placed affirmation. :thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

I, for one, appreciate well-placed affirmation. :thumbsup:

No worries BB, I will not be deterred by the quips of Rip. I dont believe (being a mathematician) in being overly redundant. It gets one in trouble where equations are concerned. I can only hope that Rip will use Bivariate analysis, Wilcoxon Rank Sums and throw in some non-parametric statistical analysis in his computations of my "thumbs up".

 

[annsni]

I've heard of Bell and have no desire to get any teaching from him. There are much more solid pastors/teachers out there. I hate food with too many bones. It's just not worth my time.

 

[Rippon]

I've heard of Bell and have no desire to get any teaching from him. There are much more solid pastors/teachers out there. I hate food with too many bones. It's just not worth my time.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[quantumfaith]

Hey, but I do agree with Rob Bell's statement (as quoted here on BB) "Love Wins". After all, scripture tells us that "God is Love."

 

[annsni]

Hey, but I do agree with Rob Bell's statement (as quoted here on BB) "Love Wins". After all, scripture tells us that "God is Love."

That's very true. I just really hope that the book is not what the world loves to hear - that God loves everyone and He'd never send anyone to hell. It's taught in many churches despite what the Bible teaches. It would be heartbreaking to see it pushed even more.

 

[quantumfaith]

That's very true. I just really hope that the book is not what the world loves to hear - that God loves everyone and He'd never send anyone to hell. It's taught in many churches despite what the Bible teaches. It would be heartbreaking to see it pushed even more.

I personally will probably not read Mr. Bells book. I will just rely on others to relay its contents. Too many other good books compete for my attention.

 

[MojoTurbo]

... plus there is nothing wrong with wanting love to win. Most of us believe that 2/3 of the world is going to hell (thus his statement about Gandhi) and or "wide is the road..." blah blah blah

But shouldn't we all WANT the exact opposite? What is the harm in wanting all people to come to grace? Why wouldn't we want to see love in?

Because from a pessimistic standpoint, if Hell is more populated that the new earth (or heaven depending on your theology) then does "love" really win?