Questions in the face of disaster

[Luke2427]

The catastrophic destruction of Japan causes people question the goodness of God.

But, because of human depravity the questions that come forth are the wrong ones.

Why doesn’t God save everybody- both from physical destruction and spiritual damnation? Why doesn’t God save everybody?

Wrong question: the right question is this:
Why does God save ANYBODY?

People ask, “How could a good God let tragedies like this occur? How could a good God let many people die and go to hell?”
The goodness of God should not be under fire for destroying sinners. His destruction of idolaters, and self-worshipers, and blasphemers, and those who will not honor his laws- that does not speak against his goodness. That PROVES his goodness!

If anything should cause you to question the goodness of God it ought to be the fact that he saves so many- how could a GOOD God save so many sinful people (how could he save even ONE sinful person and be truly GOOD)???

When we look at the destruction in Japan, the question ought not be, “How could a good God destroy anyone?” it ought to be, “How can God be good and just and holy and NOT destroy EVERYONE?”

How backwards is our depraved thinking!!!!!

May we repent of our man-centeredness and low view of God that we have had and that we as Christians have taught our culture to adopt and thereby blaspheme the God of Heaven.

 

[Van]

Goodness?

Yes, one of the answers to the question of why in God's very good creation does pain, suffering and death exist? Certainly a partial answer is the complete package of our insights into God's character, His requirement to either treat His creation with justice or mercy. But, I believe, that is only a partial answer.

In a world without pain, suffering or death who would need to rely upon God as a refuge. Why would we need to stand upon the Rock? I believe the harsh environment of God's creation is provided as a tutor to lead us to God.

But, some might say, if God created an environment where tornadoes go where they may and destroy a devote family home but leave untouched to neighbor who hates God, is that not evil? No, not from God's viewpoint, because it fulfills His purpose of choosing a people (faithful believers) for His own possession. If something bad happens to me, I can think it was an "evil" wind that brought it, but from the perspective of God, the "wind" was fulfilling its purpose.

And because I believe in limited free will, we can make choices within the purview God allows, I believe some of the evil that surrounds us and harms us is the result of man's choices, and not what God desires, but instead what He allows in order to fulfill His purpose. If we were compelled by God's determinism to say "God I love you" we would be no more than pull string dolls, and that would not fulfill God's purpose.

 

[quantumfaith]

The catastrophic destruction of Japan causes people question the goodness of God.

But, because of human depravity the questions that come forth are the wrong ones.

Why doesn’t God save everybody- both from physical destruction and spiritual damnation? Why doesn’t God save everybody?

Wrong question: the right question is this:
Why does God save ANYBODY?

People ask, “How could a good God let tragedies like this occur? How could a good God let many people die and go to hell?”
The goodness of God should not be under fire for destroying sinners. His destruction of idolaters, and self-worshipers, and blasphemers, and those who will not honor his laws- that does not speak against his goodness. That PROVES his goodness!

If anything should cause you to question the goodness of God it ought to be the fact that he saves so many- how could a GOOD God save so many sinful people (how could he save even ONE sinful person and be truly GOOD)???

When we look at the destruction in Japan, the question ought not be, “How could a good God destroy anyone?” it ought to be, “How can God be good and just and holy and NOT destroy EVERYONE?”

How backwards is our depraved thinking!!!!!

May we repent of our man-centeredness and low view of God that we have had and that we as Christians have taught our culture to adopt and thereby blaspheme the God of Heaven.

Thank you Luke. We can all stop any questions at all related to theodicy. You have answered them all for us. We can now turn out the lights and exit stage left. (BTW, I do think your question is a reasonable one to ask, but that does not mean we should not "ask" and "wrestle with" others.)

 

[Jarthur001]

The catastrophic destruction of Japan causes people question the goodness of God.

But, because of human depravity the questions that come forth are the wrong ones.

Why doesn’t God save everybody- both from physical destruction and spiritual damnation? Why doesn’t God save everybody?

Wrong question: the right question is this:
Why does God save ANYBODY?

People ask, “How could a good God let tragedies like this occur? How could a good God let many people die and go to hell?”
The goodness of God should not be under fire for destroying sinners. His destruction of idolaters, and self-worshipers, and blasphemers, and those who will not honor his laws- that does not speak against his goodness. That PROVES his goodness!

If anything should cause you to question the goodness of God it ought to be the fact that he saves so many- how could a GOOD God save so many sinful people (how could he save even ONE sinful person and be truly GOOD)???

When we look at the destruction in Japan, the question ought not be, “How could a good God destroy anyone?” it ought to be, “How can God be good and just and holy and NOT destroy EVERYONE?”

How backwards is our depraved thinking!!!!!

May we repent of our man-centeredness and low view of God that we have had and that we as Christians have taught our culture to adopt and thereby blaspheme the God of Heaven.

My take.....LINK

 

[Luke2427]

Thank you Luke. We can all stop any questions at all related to theodicy. You have answered them all for us. We can now turn out the lights and exit stage left.

I am thrilled to hear you are finally coming to your senses.:thumbs:

God destroying sinners should never cause anyone to question the goodness of God. God destroying sinners is PROOF of the goodness of God.

If one is ever to question God's goodness then it should be prompted by his PARDONING of sinners.

We don't question the goodness of a judge who sentences the murderer to prison.

We DO question the goodness of the judge who does NOT punish the murderer.

 

[sag38]

Personally I don't think "God" destroyed anyone in Japan. The tectonic plates shifted, it caused an earthquake, and people died. Earthquakes kill indiscriminately (Christians and non-Christians alike) as do any man made and natural disasters.

 

[Luke2427]

Personally I don't think "God" destroyed anyone in Japan. The tectonic plates shifted, it caused an earthquake, and people died. Earthquakes kill indiscriminately (Christians and non-Christians alike) as do any man made and natural disasters.

Amos 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?

 

[Winman]

I believe natural disasters are simply a part of the curse pronounced upon the "ground" in Gen 3:15-17

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

I believe one of the consequences of sin is that disorder or entropy was introduced into the universe. This is also known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
,
In Rev 22:3 we see this curse will be lifted.

 

[quantumfaith]

I am thrilled to hear you are finally coming to your senses.:thumbs:

God destroying sinners should never cause anyone to question the goodness of God. God destroying sinners is PROOF of the goodness of God.

If one is ever to question God's goodness then it should be prompted by his PARDONING of sinners.

We don't question the goodness of a judge who sentences the murderer to prison.

We DO question the goodness of the judge who does NOT punish the murderer.

Just so we are clear, I "NEVER" question the goodness of God, what I do question is yours and my own "interpretation" of HOW God expresses his goodness, grace, love and sovereignty toward us and in His creation.

 

[quantumfaith]

Personally I don't think "God" destroyed anyone in Japan. The tectonic plates shifted, it caused an earthquake, and people died. Earthquakes kill indiscriminately (Christians and non-Christians alike) as do any man made and natural disasters.

I am with you on this one SAG, God has established the parameters and "randomness" (quantum fluctuations) of His creation, and of course we are subject to those natural laws of physics (good and bad). It is certainly reasonable, I think, to allow such tragedies to cause us to question, realize our mortality, and evaluate where we stand with our maker.

 

[Jarthur001]

My take.....LINK

from the link i wrote..

When devastation hits like the Japan or Haiti earthquake, or killer hurricanes like Katrina, Christians are forced to field questions from non-believers as to why a “good God” allows such things. This, a fair question to ask, is based on the following syllogism that non-believers give.

Premise one: If God is omnipotent, he is able to prevent evil.
Premise two: If God is good, he wants to prevent evil.
Premise three: Evil exists.


Conclusion one: Either God is not omnipotent, or he is not good.
Conclusion two: There is no God.



Believers must admit that this is a tough syllogism to address.

John Frame, maybe the foremost Christian philosopher living today, admits this problem. Frame says,

“The problem of evil is probably the most difficult problem in all of theology, and for many atheists it is the Achilles’ heel of the theistic worldview.”

from: Earthquakes and a good God - National Calvinism | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/calvinism-in-national/earthquakes-and-a-good-god#ixzz1GWf6m8ji
​

 

[Martin Marprelate]

These verses came into my mind when I heard of the disaster.

"Declare this in the house of Jacob and proclaim it in Judah, saying,
'Hear this now, O foolish people, without understanding,
Who have eyes and see not, and who have ears and hear not:
Do you not fear Me?' says the Lord. 'Will you not tremble at My presence,
Who have placed the sand as the bound of the sea,
By a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass beyond it?
And though its waves toss to and fro, yet they cannot prevail;
Though they roar, yet they cannot pass over it.
But this people has a defiant and rebellious heart; they have revolted and departed.
They do not say in their heart, "Let us now fear the Lord our God,
Who gives rain, both the former and the latter, in its season.
He reserves for us the appointed weeks of the harvest."
Your iniquities have turned these things away,
And your sins have withheld good from you.
Jer 5:20-25 (NKJV)

Steve

 

[Van]

Premise 2

If God is good, He wants to prevent evil.

False premise. His created environment brings calamity to those who love God and those who hate God, and this circumstance is not evil from God's perspective because it fulfills His purpose of creation.

In heaven, pain, suffering and death will be eliminated. God does not say He will or wants to prevent these things in this world. For example, suffering for Christ might earn spiritual rewards.

The problem statement is an invention of man, I think first concocted to attack the existence of false Greek Gods. It is based on a premise that is not true of the God of the Bible.

I do not see why anyone would see it as a problem.

 

[Robert Snow]

I am with you on this one SAG, God has established the parameters and "randomness" (quantum fluctuations) of His creation, and of course we are subject to those natural laws of physics (good and bad). It is certainly reasonable, I think, to allow such tragedies to cause us to question, realize our mortality, and evaluate where we stand with our maker.

I believe you are correct. It's so simple even a Calvinist could understand it.

 

[Rippon]

I believe you are correct. It's so simple even a Calvinist could understand it.

Can't pass up making a denigrating comment,can you?

 

[Rippon]

I am with you on this one SAG, God has established the parameters and "randomness" (quantum fluctuations) of His creation, and of course we are subject to those natural laws of physics (good and bad).

The Lord does absolutely nothing at random.

 

[Jarthur001]

If God is good, He wants to prevent evil.

False premise. His created environment brings calamity to those who love God and those who hate God, and this circumstance is not evil from God's perspective because it fulfills His purpose of creation.

In heaven, pain, suffering and death will be eliminated. God does not say He will or wants to prevent these things in this world. For example, suffering for Christ might earn spiritual rewards.

The problem statement is an invention of man, I think first concocted to attack the existence of false Greek Gods. It is based on a premise that is not true of the God of the Bible.

I do not see why anyone would see it as a problem.

1st, if you had taken the time to read the link, you would find that that was not my premise and I disagree with it.

2nd you do not deal with love and pain and goodness.

If I have the power to save a child from getting hit by a car, but I choose not to do this what would you call this?

 

[quantumfaith]

The Lord does absolutely nothing at random.

Thank you for your insight. Don't know what I would do without your assistance in all these matters of questions and pondering. From now on, whenever I have any question I will simply ask you. BTW, yes God is not random, but he can certainly endow his creation, with "randomness".

 

[Robert Snow]

Can't pass up making a denigrating comment,can you?

I guess you just don't have a sense of humor? I could have used the word "caveman" but you might have still been offended.

The Lord does absolutely nothing at random.

How could you possibly know all the workings of God with his creation. God could use randomness just as easily as He gave man free will, which He did.

 

[Rippon]

Scripture From 1984 NIV

... yes God is not random, but he can certainly endow his creation, with "randomness".

You contradict yourself. Nothing in His creation is random. That false philosophy of yours needs to be abandoned. The Lord causes chaos -- as Scripture attests --but the Lord is not chaotic. He does things with planning and purpose.

Scripture will follow.

Amos 3:6b :When disaster comes to a city,has not the Lord caused it?

Lamentations 3:38 :Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?

Isa. 45:7 : I form the light and create disaster;I,the Lord do all these things.

2 Kings 22:16 : This is what the Lord says;I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people.