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Who cast Jonah into the sea

W

Winman

Active Member
Luke2427 said:
For those who believe that God does not do things concurrently with men, who cast Jonah into the sea?
Click to expand...

Luke, what does Jonah say?

Jon 1:4 But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
14 Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.
15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
16 Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows.
17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

If you simply read the account for what it says, it was Jonah himself who suggested the mariners cast him into the sea (verse 12). And notice that the men did not immediately do so, but tried very hard to bring the ship to land.

Now, it is obvious the Lord caused this great storm on the sea, and the mariners were quite aware of this. It was only when they saw that they could not bring the ship to land that they threw Jonah overboard.

But we do see that God had prepared a whale to be present and swallow Jonah up.

I will agree that God brought great influence upon these mariners, but as you can see, they resisted throwing Jonah overboard for awhile. So, I don't think a person can say God actually caused these sailors to throw Jonah overboard, as they would not have been able to resist as the account says they did.

So, there is a difference from using influence and persuasion and actually forcing something to happen. A con artist will use persuasion and influence to cause a person to give him money, a robber will use actual force. There is a difference.
 
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L

Luke2427

Active Member
Winman said:
Luke, what does Jonah say?

Jon 1:4 But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.
5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.
6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.
7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah.
8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?
9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.
11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.
12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.
13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.
14 Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.
15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.
16 Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows.
17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

If you simply read the account for what it says, it was Jonah himself who suggested the mariners cast him into the sea (verse 12). And notice that the men did not immediately do so, but tried very hard to bring the ship to land.

Now, it is obvious the Lord caused this great storm on the sea, and the mariners were quite aware of this. It was only when they saw that they could not bring the ship to land that they threw Jonah overboard.

But we do see that God had prepared a whale to be present and swallow Jonah up.

I will agree that God brought great influence upon these mariners, but as you can see, they resisted throwing Jonah overboard for awhile. So, I don't think a person can say God actually caused these sailors to throw Jonah overboard, as they would not have been able to resist as the account says they did.

So, there is a difference from using influence and persuasion and actually forcing something to happen. A con artist will use persuasion and influence to cause a person to give him money, a robber will use actual force. There is a difference.
Click to expand...

So God is a con-artist in your estimation?

Will you yield when I show you that the Bible says that GOD cast him into the sea?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Luke2427 said:
So God is a con-artist in your estimation?

Will you yield when I show you that the Bible says that GOD cast him into the sea?
Click to expand...

It is not non-Cals like myself that says God does evil.

If you have scripture that says God cast Jonah in the sea I will accept it. I agree that the scriptures shows God often intervenes in the affairs of men. But you cannot apply Jonah to all men in all situations.

I don't know about you, but I did not resist God when I heard the gospel, God did not have to chase me into church with lightning bolts for me to see I was a sinner and accept Christ. But if you were to listen to Calvinists, you would believe that the only way a person gets saved is if God chases him down like Jonah or Paul. But read of Jesus's disciples, you see no such resistance at all. Most left what they were doing immediately and followed Christ, no resistance whatsoever.
 
C

convicted1

Guest
It is not so much as to who cast Jonah into the sea, but as to why he was cast into the sea.

Jon 1:4 But the LORD sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the ship was like to be broken.

5 Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the ship into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Jonah was gone down into the sides of the ship; and he lay, and was fast asleep.I can see Jesus throughout this whole passage. Jonah was down inside the ship asleep while the sea was tossing to and fro, much the same way Jesus was asleep during the storm on the ship with the twelve Disciples.

6 So the shipmaster came to him, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God, if so be that God will think upon us, that we perish not.

7 And they said every one to his fellow, Come, and let us cast lots, that we may know for whose cause this evil is upon us. So they cast lots, and the lot fell upon Jonah. The lot fell upon Jesus to die for us, just like Jonah was cast out of the ship to perish for the others

8 Then said they unto him, Tell us, we pray thee, for whose cause this evil is upon us; What is thine occupation? and whence comest thou? what is thy country? and of what people art thou?

9 And he said unto them, I am an Hebrew; and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry land.

10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him, Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them.

11 Then said they unto him, What shall we do unto thee, that the sea may be calm unto us? for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous.

12 And he said unto them, Take me up, and cast me forth into the sea; so shall the sea be calm unto you: for I know that for my sake this great tempest is upon you.

13 Nevertheless the men rowed hard to bring it to the land; but they could not: for the sea wrought, and was tempestuous against them.

14 Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.

15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.

16 Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows.

17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

This right here is an allegory of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. When Jonah was cast off the ship, and the whale swallowed him(Jesus' tomb), the sea quits its raging(God's wrath for sin was appeased). I believe the tempest that was rocking the ship was a symbol of the Church being assaulted as they were having Jesus' trail to put Him to death and also while He was dying on the cross at Calvary!! The Church has never been assaulted like this before or after!!

Now, God no more threw Jonah into the sea than I did. The men on the ship did that. He, however, caused the great tempest to come about, and also prepared the great fish(whale) to swallow him after he was tossed out. But to say that God Himself, picked Jonah up by the seat of his britches...or robe in this case( :) ) is not supported anywhere in His Word....NOWHERE!!!

So, this story is an actual occurance, but it fortells(sp?) of the suffering of Jesus the day He was crucified.

i am I AM's!!

Willis
 
Q

quantumfaith

Active Member
Here's the thing Luke. Often (it seems to me) that with you, it is "all or nothing". I do not perceive here that anyone would say that God does not do specific things with specific people (ie cause/determine specific outcomes) as in the case of Jonah or multiple other persons recorded in the pages of scripture. I, speaking only for myself, freely acknowledge that fact, but at the same time do not necessarily view that as the "normative" but rather specific actions God has taken in the redemptive history of creation. By that, I do not mean that God simply leaves the masses alone with regard to his Will, but grants freedom so long as we live within His "moral will". If/when God has something specific for You or Me to accomplish within the framework of His redemptive plan, That will be clearly obvious to You or Me. If you care to have a greater (more clear) presentation of this, read: Decision Making and God's Will: An Alternative View to the Traditional Approach by Gary Freisen.
 
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