The arminians are stunned and confused by your posts also...they read it and see that we oppose your ideas...so even though they do not agree with the calvinists too often, even they think you are too far out there.That is what we are trying to tell you Van...it is time to come back to the reservation from which you have departed.
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Arminian Weaknesses reflect Calvinism
- Thread starter Van
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The arminians are stunned and confused by your posts also...they read it and see that we oppose your ideas...so even though they do not agree with the calvinists too often, even they think you are too far out there.That is what we are trying to tell you Van...it is time to come back to the reservation from which you have departed.
That is absolutely the funniest thing I've read today. Here we have a cult trying to defend it's self from the truth, by warning those of God's judgment while the Arminians gave them the real truth, . The synod was a mock trial of Arminianism. It had no authority except what was assumed by them selves. Nothing was more hypocritical in all of Christendom. If you don't wish all that scandal to be brought up again. Don't skate so close to it. I've studdied Calvinism too. I don't believe a word of it because it isn't found in scripture. Like your Catholic mother you rely on the teaching of your church fathers instead of what Christ said.
MB
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
And so this is the clear, simple, and straightforward explanation (the canons of dort) of the orthodox teaching on the five articles in dispute in the Netherlands, as well as the rejection of the errors by which the Dutch churches have for some time been disturbed. This explanation and rejection the Synod declares to be derived from God's Word and in agreement with the confessions of the Reformed churches.
And yet RB my brother, you want to be kind & conciliatory....didnt you read that you are a cult. :laugh: But yet we are the arrogant ones. :laugh:
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I tend to ignore the personal attacks.
If it's from scripture then why haven't you shown this to me. You act as though you have the truth. You make wonderous claims and yet you fail too be able to prove them true with scripture. What the synod was is a group of men trying to force nonsense on the rest of the world.
MB
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
It's a mircale. How'd that man know my momma was a Catholic?
She was in fact.
Wait...I think he means that idea that since all Protestant churches come out of the Roman Catholic church, then we are all still soiled somehow.
I recently lost a good friend over this kind of spirit. It truly is bad. No amount of reason or thought is sufficient.
[offensive retort edited]
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ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
I find it laughable.....shows the true caliber of your opponent. How could anyone who has studied the Scriptures make such asinine statements? Truly bizarre.
Why give a biblical response to nonsense and hatred?
MB
I'd like to know the same of you. You and your Hyper Cal's friends have done nothiong but make your selves look true to your nature. All you know how to do is ridicule something you haven't been regenerated to understand.:smilewinkgrin:
MB
You do not give a biblical response because you cannot. You poke calvinists in the eye with a stick,then when they respond,you wuess out like an ostritch.
The truth of God is nonsense to you....I understand
Give us your biblical response. I have never seen you offer one. Can You? Or can you only give your snide little comments?
Arminian Weaknesses reflect Calvinism
The words in italics are partial quotes and paraphrases from “Arminian Articles of Remonstrance”
Jacob (James) Arminius taught that after the fall, mankind was totally depraved, unable by nature to do anything really good. But rather than solve this issue by the unconditional pre-selection of individuals by God and then enabling them to trust in God via irresistible grace, Arminius solved the apparent dilemma of individual election before a person comes to faith by asserting God’s foresight into the nature of some persons, and thus according to Arminius God elected those of foreseen faith to salvation before the world began. To get around spiritual inability, God granted grace to all men so they could respond (accept or reject) the gospel. Those that accept are the very same ones that God foresaw would accept, and therefore Arminius works man’s freewill into the equation. In sum, this view is closer to what the bible actually teaches than Calvinism.
Rather than irresistible grace, we have resistible grace; rather than unconditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals, we have conditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals foreseen to come to faith by their own free will.
Arminian teachings were summarized as follows:
1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. This is election by foreseen faith. (The underlying biblical truth that makes this view false is God chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness during their lifetime, not before creation.)
2. Christ died for all men (not just for the supposed pre-selected elect individuals), but no one except the believer has remission of sin. (True.)
3. Man cannot do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Scripture says the unsaved can give good gifts to their kids, so discernment and choice is taught as a capability of the unsaved, limited as it is in that nothing the unsaved can do will result in earning salvation. If the point is in support of mystic mind manipulation (resistible grace) being necessary in order to overcome Total Spiritual Inability to enable us to place our faith in Christ, it is a false premise. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.)
4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible. (If we do something good, it was enabled by God’s grace, if something sinful, it is all on us, God’s grace did not cause it. True)
5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. ( Those incorporated into Christ are incorporated by God, after He credits our faith as righteousness. Scripture plainly says that it is not possible to become unsaved, but is possible to believe you are saved and then fall away from your “faith.” For people will say, “Lord, Lord” but Christ will say, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:22-23.) Note “never”, not “I knew you once but no more.” 1 John 2:19 says that those who went out from us were not of us, again teaching those who fall away were never born again.)
In summary, Arminius formulated his doctrine to address his understanding of the flawed doctrine associated with John Calvin. He is on target in that he recognized something was amiss, but by framing his response based on acceptance of some of the underlying false premises of Calvin, his solution, like fruit from a corrupt tree, is unpalatable.
The biblical position is summarized as follows:
1. God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God (1 Peter 1:19-20), and therefore anyone spiritually placed into Christ shares in His election before the foundation of the world. God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2). Hence, He chose us in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, (Ephesians 1:4).
2. Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those whose faith in Christ God credits as righteousness (Romans 4:5) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.
3. Our individual election occurs when God chooses us to be a member of His family, after we are alive and have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. He chooses those who are rich in faith and love God (James 2:5), who believe in Christ (John 3:16). We are chosen by God placing us into Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) 2 Thessalonians 2:13, after He credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God’s saving grace, Romans 5:2.
Do any Arminian leaning poster want to address this view?
The words in italics are partial quotes and paraphrases from “Arminian Articles of Remonstrance”
Jacob (James) Arminius taught that after the fall, mankind was totally depraved, unable by nature to do anything really good. But rather than solve this issue by the unconditional pre-selection of individuals by God and then enabling them to trust in God via irresistible grace, Arminius solved the apparent dilemma of individual election before a person comes to faith by asserting God’s foresight into the nature of some persons, and thus according to Arminius God elected those of foreseen faith to salvation before the world began. To get around spiritual inability, God granted grace to all men so they could respond (accept or reject) the gospel. Those that accept are the very same ones that God foresaw would accept, and therefore Arminius works man’s freewill into the equation. In sum, this view is closer to what the bible actually teaches than Calvinism.
Rather than irresistible grace, we have resistible grace; rather than unconditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals, we have conditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals foreseen to come to faith by their own free will.
Arminian teachings were summarized as follows:
1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. This is election by foreseen faith. (The underlying biblical truth that makes this view false is God chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness during their lifetime, not before creation.)
2. Christ died for all men (not just for the supposed pre-selected elect individuals), but no one except the believer has remission of sin. (True.)
3. Man cannot do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Scripture says the unsaved can give good gifts to their kids, so discernment and choice is taught as a capability of the unsaved, limited as it is in that nothing the unsaved can do will result in earning salvation. If the point is in support of mystic mind manipulation (resistible grace) being necessary in order to overcome Total Spiritual Inability to enable us to place our faith in Christ, it is a false premise. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.)
4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible. (If we do something good, it was enabled by God’s grace, if something sinful, it is all on us, God’s grace did not cause it. True)
5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. ( Those incorporated into Christ are incorporated by God, after He credits our faith as righteousness. Scripture plainly says that it is not possible to become unsaved, but is possible to believe you are saved and then fall away from your “faith.” For people will say, “Lord, Lord” but Christ will say, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:22-23.) Note “never”, not “I knew you once but no more.” 1 John 2:19 says that those who went out from us were not of us, again teaching those who fall away were never born again.)
In summary, Arminius formulated his doctrine to address his understanding of the flawed doctrine associated with John Calvin. He is on target in that he recognized something was amiss, but by framing his response based on acceptance of some of the underlying false premises of Calvin, his solution, like fruit from a corrupt tree, is unpalatable.
The biblical position is summarized as follows:
1. God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God (1 Peter 1:19-20), and therefore anyone spiritually placed into Christ shares in His election before the foundation of the world. God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2). Hence, He chose us in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, (Ephesians 1:4).
2. Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those whose faith in Christ God credits as righteousness (Romans 4:5) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.
3. Our individual election occurs when God chooses us to be a member of His family, after we are alive and have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. He chooses those who are rich in faith and love God (James 2:5), who believe in Christ (John 3:16). We are chosen by God placing us into Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) 2 Thessalonians 2:13, after He credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God’s saving grace, Romans 5:2.
Do any Arminian leaning poster want to address this view?
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Does Arminianism differ on any of these points?
A. Christ died for all people because He laid down His life as a ransom for all.
B. Unbelief is a sin and cannot be forgiven if it continues until death. However, if a person comes to their senses and puts their trust in Christ, all the previous rejections and unbelief are forgiven.
C. Those whose faith God credits as righteousness are saved, those who did not hear, were unable to hear, or did not trust wholeheartedly are not saved from God's perfect justice.
Now based on these three biblically supported statements, we can draw the following conclusions about the extent of God's reconciliation.
1. Christ died for all people, and His sacrifice provides the propitiation or means of salvation for all people. There is no other way.
2. Only believers whose faith is credited as righteousness receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's propitiation. If all people were believers all sin would be forgiven, if no one is a believer, no sin is forgiven.
A. Christ died for all people because He laid down His life as a ransom for all.
B. Unbelief is a sin and cannot be forgiven if it continues until death. However, if a person comes to their senses and puts their trust in Christ, all the previous rejections and unbelief are forgiven.
C. Those whose faith God credits as righteousness are saved, those who did not hear, were unable to hear, or did not trust wholeheartedly are not saved from God's perfect justice.
Now based on these three biblically supported statements, we can draw the following conclusions about the extent of God's reconciliation.
1. Christ died for all people, and His sacrifice provides the propitiation or means of salvation for all people. There is no other way.
2. Only believers whose faith is credited as righteousness receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's propitiation. If all people were believers all sin would be forgiven, if no one is a believer, no sin is forgiven.
Well, Jesus certainly believed an unregenerate person could come to his senses. Remember the prodigal son? Remember his father said he was dead? But while he was still filthy in sin, living with the pigs it said he "came to himself".
It was only after he returned home that his father put a clean robe on him (righteousness) and put a ring on his finger (sonship). It was after placing the robe on him and the ring on his finger that his father said he was alive.
Hi Rippon, your assertions have no weight, as I have demonstrated from scripture the truth of my position. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates a person in an unregenerate state can be entering heaven, therefore has whatever spiritual ability necessary to enter heaven.
Why has no Arminian or non-Calvinist addressed the topic? Truth does not fear the light.
Why has no Arminian or non-Calvinist addressed the topic? Truth does not fear the light.
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