Ecc. 3:11 and compatibilism

[webdog]

God has set eternity (immortality) in the hearts of all men. If men will always choose their greatest desire, how can there be a greater desire than what God has set in your heart, and according to the principle of compatibilism, how can man choose contrary to such a desire?

 

[Deacon]

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Romans 1:18–24 (ESV)

 

[webdog]

,

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,
Romans 1:18??–24 (ESV)

Great passage. Care to explain how it answers my question pertaining to compatibilism?,,

 

[Deacon]

,

Care to explain how it answers my question pertaining to compatibilism?,,

It notes that God judges the decisions of man contrary to his purposes.
His will is deterninistic. Our will is free.

Rob

 

[webdog]

It notes that God judges the decisions of man contrary to his purposes.
His will is deterninistic. Our will is free.

Rob

Still not sure how that is relevant to the op.

70 views...and not one compatibilist response?

 

[revmwc]

From Wikipedia:

"Compatibilists often seek to reconcile free will with predestination of all events specifically to allow for a God's omniscience. This is again accomplished by the typical Compatibilist definition of 'free will' as 'freedom to act'.

Compatibilism in this context holds that the religious concepts of God's sovereignty and the free will of man are, rightly understood not mutually exclusive. The all-knowing God (who sees past, present, and future simultaneously from the perspective of eternity) created human beings (who have the subjective perception of making choices in the present that have consequences for themselves and others in the future) in such a way that both are true: God is ultimately sovereign and therefore must have at least permitted any choice that a human could make, but at the same time God is right to hold humans accountable because from their perspective within the confines of serial time, humans make moral choices between good and evil. This route to reconciliation may not be entirely successful, however. Examples of criticism include the Argument from free will, and perhaps the Compatibilists often seek to reconcile free will with predestination of all events specifically to allow for a God's omniscience. This is again accomplished by the typical Compatibilist definition of 'free will' as 'freedom to act'.
Compatibilism in this context holds that the religious concepts of God's sovereignty and the free will of man are, rightly understood, not mutually exclusive. The all-knowing God (who sees past, present, and future simultaneously from the perspective of eternity) created human beings (who have the subjective perception of making choices in the present that have consequences for themselves and others in the future) in such a way that both are true: God is ultimately sovereign and therefore must have at least permitted any choice that a human could make, but at the same time God is right to hold humans accountable because from their perspective within the confines of serial time, humans make moral choices between good and evil. This route to reconciliation may not be entirely successful, however. Examples of criticism include the Argument from free will, and perhaps the Problem of Hell."

Is this what you are refering too?

 

[webdog]

From Wikipedia:

"Compatibilists often seek to reconcile free will with predestination of all events specifically to allow for a God's omniscience. This is again accomplished by the typical Compatibilist definition of 'free will' as 'freedom to act'.

Compatibilism in this context holds that the religious concepts of God's sovereignty and the free will of man are, rightly understood not mutually exclusive. The all-knowing God (who sees past, present, and future simultaneously from the perspective of eternity) created human beings (who have the subjective perception of making choices in the present that have consequences for themselves and others in the future) in such a way that both are true: God is ultimately sovereign and therefore must have at least permitted any choice that a human could make, but at the same time God is right to hold humans accountable because from their perspective within the confines of serial time, humans make moral choices between good and evil. This route to reconciliation may not be entirely successful, however. Examples of criticism include the Argument from free will, and perhaps the Compatibilists often seek to reconcile free will with predestination of all events specifically to allow for a God's omniscience. This is again accomplished by the typical Compatibilist definition of 'free will' as 'freedom to act'.
Compatibilism in this context holds that the religious concepts of God's sovereignty and the free will of man are, rightly understood, not mutually exclusive. The all-knowing God (who sees past, present, and future simultaneously from the perspective of eternity) created human beings (who have the subjective perception of making choices in the present that have consequences for themselves and others in the future) in such a way that both are true: God is ultimately sovereign and therefore must have at least permitted any choice that a human could make, but at the same time God is right to hold humans accountable because from their perspective within the confines of serial time, humans make moral choices between good and evil. This route to reconciliation may not be entirely successful, however. Examples of criticism include the Argument from free will, and perhaps the Problem of Hell."

Is this what you are refering too?

Not really, the op deals with the desire aspect of compatibilism as found on theopedia and defended on many threads here on the bb which is "Compatibilism claims that every person chooses according to his or her greatest desire. In other words, people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. Man freely makes choices, but those choices are determined by the condition of his heart and mind (i.e. his moral nature). "

 

[revmwc]

Not really, the op deals with the desire aspect of compatibilism as found on theopedia and defended on many threads here on the bb which is "Compatibilism claims that every person chooses according to his or her greatest desire. In other words, people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. Man freely makes choices, but those choices are determined by the condition of his heart and mind (i.e. his moral nature). "

You mean that men choose because God gave them volition, and they choose either for God or against God. Those who come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit must make a conscious choice to accept or rejuect the Holy Spirit's beconing. But we make choices each and everyday whether we are going to serve God or Sin.

 

[webdog]

You mean that men choose because God gave them volition, and they choose either for God or against God. Those who come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit must make a conscious choice to accept or rejuect the Holy Spirit's beconing. But we make choices each and everyday whether we are going to serve God or Sin.

That is my position, but that is not the position of the compatibilist in the op. Maybe my question in the op was not worded where it could be easily understood? It has said by compatibilists that every choice we make, we can peel the layers back and see that each choice is based on our greatest desire. When we go to work and we don't want to, the desire to make money is the greater desire, etc., etc. Based on THIS principle, knowing that God has set eternity in the hearts of each and every one of us, if this principle of compatibilism is true, that we will choose our greatest desire, how can any of our desires trump the pre-built desire God has already placed in us which is to live eternally?

 

[revmwc]

That is my position, but that is not the position of the compatibilist in the op. Maybe my question in the op was not worded where it could be easily understood? It has said by compatibilists that every choice we make, we can peel the layers back and see that each choice is based on our greatest desire. When we go to work and we don't want to, the desire to make money is the greater desire, etc., etc. Based on THIS principle, knowing that God has set eternity in the hearts of each and every one of us, if this principle of compatibilism is true, that we will choose our greatest desire, how can any of our desires trump the pre-built desire God has already placed in us which is to live eternally?

Doesn't sound like logical thinking to me. God has given us volition and we have the ability to make choices. Right or wrong, since I believe we have an old sin nature in us we are tempted to make the wrong choice. That Old Nature has a strong desire to do what was natural from birth and that is sin, God sent His son to seek and save those that were and are lost, we don't have a desire for Him, He has a desire for us.

 

[webdog]

Doesn't sound like logical thinking to me. God has given us volition and we have the ability to make choices. Right or wrong, since I believe we have an old sin nature in us we are tempted to make the wrong choice. That Old Nature has a strong desire to do what was natural from birth and that is sin, God sent His son to seek and save those that were and are lost, we don't have a desire for Him, He has a desire for us.

Are you a compatibilist...because it doesn't sound like it. This thread is a question for them based on the understanding of compatibilism.

 

[revmwc]

Are you a compatibilist...because it doesn't sound like it. This thread is a question for them based on the understanding of compatibilism.

Evidently not I just had never heard the term sorry for interferring with your thread.

 

[webdog]

Evidently not I just had never heard the term sorry for interferring with your thread.

You were not interferring, just wanted to clarify. I would like to hear from one though.

 

[Cypress]

Web. do you suppose people who fall off the upper deck catching a flyball are compatibalists?:laugh:

 

[webdog]

Where are the compatibilists?

 

[webdog]

Calling all compatibilists!

 

[webdog]

Still have not received a true answer to this from a compatibilist here on the bb in almost 2 months.

Does compatibilism apply even if the desire is instilled by God? How does this reconcile with our original (human) nature?

"Compatibilism claims that every person chooses according to his or her greatest desire. In other words, people will always choose what they want-- and what they want is determined by (and consistent with) their moral nature. Man freely makes choices, but those choices are determined by the condition of his heart and mind (i.e. his moral nature). "

If God gives the desire, can our desire be greater than the desire God has given us? Yes or no will do at this point.

 

[JesusFan]

God has set eternity (immortality) in the hearts of all men. If men will always choose their greatest desire, how can there be a greater desire than what God has set in your heart, and according to the principle of compatibilism, how can man choose contrary to such a desire?

God has granted to us a measure of free will, as we are still in His image, its just that at the fall of Adam, true free will was taken away as result of Sin entering into Humanity though act of Adam...

Unlike Adam, who had full freedom by god to choose, we can chose still, but ONLY that which our sinful natures now allow us to...

We can chose to do good deeds, help others, join a religion, worship etc BUT

in order to come to the Living God , he MUST renew our hearts and Mind, as we cannot come to him in a saving fashion until/unless he :breaks: bondage of our will/flesh, and allows us to find Him in a saving way...

We will be able to chose to appease fully our flesh, or to do good thing and fight against its influence...

But in spiritual sense...

We MUST have God do the "work" on us/in us so that we will than seek Him and the "highest desires" as until He puts those within us, we cannot seek them!

 

[webdog]

So are you saying that our desires stemming from our sin natures are more powerful than a desire God has implanted in you? How is sin more powerful? Remember, sin is not the only desire you have.

 

[JesusFan]

So are you saying that our desires stemming from our sin natures are more powerful than a desire God has implanted in you? How is sin more powerful? Remember, sin is not the only desire you have.

not more powerful , but the situation is that in myself I cannot receive the good news until I know the bad news...

A dead person does not know anything other than death, in same way, once I know by Gods grace am dead, by His grace know jesus Christ, than can turn to him and be saved!