what happens To A True Christian Who Willfully Rejects Christ/UNbelief?

[psalms109:31]

scripture

My point exactly God knows each one's heart. We are to love the sinner but not their sin, because we too have sin that besets us, the difference in those I gave and those who keep walking is 1 John 1:9. Confession of sin restores the walk in fellowship with God.

Eze 33:8-20 , 1 Tim 4:16 , Jam 5: 19-20

 

[menageriekeeper]

Confession of sin restores the walk in fellowship with God.

Umm, you aren't saying we have to be "prayed up" in order to retain our salvation are you???

 

[revmwc]

If Christ atoned for the sin of Miss X, then Miss X will repent and believe and spend eternity with the Lord.

If Christ did not atone for the sin of Miss Y, then Miss Y will never repent and believe, and will justly spend eternity in hell.

It is not based on Miss X or Miss Y's works or perception or testimony; it depends on the atonement. Atonement is the actual transfer of guilt and punishment from one to another.

Jesus' death benefited everyone. It benefits this old sin-cursed planet. But His atonement benefits only His own, those in the beloved, chosen by the Father and given to the Son in eternity past.

It would appear by this that everyone will repent and go to heaven. Since Christ atoned for all mankinds sins.

When Christ was judged on the cross for sins, He paid for the sins of the entire human race -- not just for the elect.

Romans 5: 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Timothy 4:9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11These things command and teach.

Titus 2:11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

It appears that through out scripture Christ atoned for everyones sin both saved and lost. It is also very apparant from our world that not all repent. So your theory seems to be in error. Or is scripture in error?

 

[Robert Snow]

It would appear by this that everyone will repent and go to heaven. Since Christ atoned for all mankinds sins.

When Christ was judged on the cross for sins, He paid for the sins of the entire human race -- not just for the elect.

Romans 5: 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Timothy 4:9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11These things command and teach.

Titus 2:11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

It appears that through out scripture Christ atoned for everyones sin both saved and lost. It is also very apparant from our world that not all repent. So your theory seems to be in error. Or is scripture in error?

These are scriptures that most Calvinists cannot deal with. They either formulate a new meaning or they ingore them completely.

How anyone ... can see Calvinism in the bible is beyond me. It is not there, but they keep trying to make it fit.

 

[revmwc]

Umm, you aren't saying we have to be "prayed up" in order to retain our salvation are you???

Definity not I am saying fellowship and having our prayers answered comes with confession of sin.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Definity not I am saying fellowship and having our prayers answered comes with confession of sin.

Whew! Good! That we can agree on!

 

[StefanM]

These are scriptures that most Calvinists cannot deal with. They either formulate a new meaning or they ingore them completely.

How anyone with a brain can see Calvinism in the bible is beyond me. It is not there, but they keep trying to make it fit.

Both sides interpret verses to fit with their system of theology. We know that scripture is consistent, so we try to harmonize verses into a coherent theology.

I could be wrong, you could be wrong, or both of us could be wrong. There is no reason to be insulting about it.

 

[Robert Snow]

Both sides interpret verses to fit with their system of theology. We know that scripture is consistent, so we try to harmonize verses into a coherent theology.

I could be wrong, you could be wrong, or both of us could be wrong. There is no reason to be insulting about it.

I don't see how what I said was insulting. Just my opinion stated with some hyperbole. Maybe Calvinism effects someone's sense of humor (I hope you don't consider this insulting as well).

 

[Baptist4life]

This is a question I truly wonder about because it hits home for me. I have a sister who is in her 60's and we were raised in church. She professed Christ as a teen age girl, and worked in our church, lived a Godly life, for quite a few years...........then............she married an unsaved man, quit going to church, and now says she's not sure there even is a God. Was/is she saved? I know a LOT of Christians who lose their faith and doubt what they believe. I can't believe that they aren't saved. What do you think?

 

[kyredneck]

Assuming here is a "real" believer in Jesus, rgenerated by God...
Through whatever reasons, deides to 'walk away' from his faith

Probably the most common reason for 'walking away' from the faith:

Woe unto the shepherds of Israel ....ye feed not the sheep....but with force and with rigor have ye ruled over them....And as for my sheep, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet, and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet. Ezek 34:2,3,4,19,

 

[StefanM]

I don't see how what I said was insulting. Just my opinion stated with some hyperbole. Maybe Calvinism effects someone's sense of humor (I hope you don't consider this insulting as well).

"I don't see how anyone with a brain..."

The problem isn't humor. It's that the debate is already so heated that further escalation is unwise.

 

[annsni]

These are scriptures that most Calvinists cannot deal with. They either formulate a new meaning or they ingore them completely.

How anyone ... can see Calvinism in the bible is beyond me. It is not there, but they keep trying to make it fit.

However, if you read the verses as "all" meaning "every human being to ever live", it is saying then that every person is saved. Period, end of story. But it's not true in the light of all of Scripture - so there must be something more.

 

[revmwc]

However, if you read the verses as "all" meaning "every human being to ever live", it is saying then that every person is saved. Period, end of story. But it's not true in the light of all of Scripture - so there must be something more.

Since the issue is not a sin issue then Christ paid for every human beings sins. The issue has become a Son issue have you believed on the Son, Jesus Christ as your saviour. He paid the price for your sin you must accept that you are sinner and need a saviour who paid the penalty for you. Not all accept His payment, so because their rejection of the Son they will die the second death and be seperated from God forever.
So Christ according to all these verses, When Christ was judged on the cross for sins, He paid for the sins of the entire human race -- not just for the elect.

Romans 5: 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Imputation of righteousness occurs here. All who receive has Christ righteousness imputed to their account.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Timothy 4:9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11These things command and teach.

Titus 2:11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I don't see how what I said was insulting. Just my opinion stated with some hyperbole. Maybe Calvinism effects someone's sense of humor (I hope you don't consider this insulting as well).

All you achieve by this rhetoric is to make the Calvinist more resolute. Was that your intent?

 

[annsni]

Since the issue is not a sin issue then Christ paid for every human beings sins. The issue has become a Son issue have you believed on the Son, Jesus Christ as your saviour. He paid the price for your sin you must accept that you are sinner and need a saviour who paid the penalty for you. Not all accept His payment, so because their rejection of the Son they will die the second death and be seperated from God forever.
So Christ according to all these verses, When Christ was judged on the cross for sins, He paid for the sins of the entire human race -- not just for the elect.

Romans 5: 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Imputation of righteousness occurs here. All who receive has Christ righteousness imputed to their account.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1 Timothy 4:9This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11These things command and teach.

Titus 2:11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So people go to hell with their sins forgiven. I didn't know that. But isn't "unbelief" a sin? Wasn't that forgiven?

 

[jbh28]

Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; "

Philippians 1:6 "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 1:13"In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,"


answer: He won't

 

[revmwc]

So people go to hell with their sins forgiven. I didn't know that. But isn't "unbelief" a sin? Wasn't that forgiven?

Rejection of Christ sends them to hell. The payment was made the free gift given but the gift was never accepted and therefore they go to hell in their unbelief.
Christ atoned for all sin, He also said there was one unforgivable sin, that being the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. If one rejects the call of the Holy Spirit Blaspheming Him.

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

So define Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, is it rejecting His work and calling, or just His work. Either way the unbeliever rejects the Holy Spirit and Christ and therefore are in danger of eternal damnation, and that is the unbeliever.

 

[annsni]

Rejection of Christ sends them to hell. The payment was made the free gift given but the gift was never accepted and therefore they go to hell in their unbelief.
Christ atoned for all sin, He also said there was one unforgivable sin, that being the Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. If one rejects the call of the Holy Spirit Blaspheming Him.

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

So define Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, is it rejecting His work and calling, or just His work. Either way the unbeliever rejects the Holy Spirit and Christ and therefore are in danger of eternal damnation, and that is the unbeliever.

So rejecting Christ and blasphemy against the Spirit is the same thing? What evidence do you have of this?

 

[JesusFan]

So they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, sealed by the blood of the Lamb and their name is written on God's hand - and they walk away?? How do they do that?

Was asking IF a person decides willfully to "ship wreak" their Faith...
Something happened. lost of spouse, kids died early in life etc

They were so hurt, decided to stop serving the Lord. and went back to just living their lives w/o God

NOT saying went into gross sinning, just decided to act as if God was no longer there, no more praying/reading Bible etc...

Just asking here...

Would God just 'let them go?"
Would He judge their actions, and cause bad things to come their way to "wake them up?"
IF severe enough, would he bring early death on them to "save their soul?"

 

[revmwc]

So rejecting Christ and blasphemy against the Spirit is the same thing? What evidence do you have of this?

Rejecting the call of the Holy Spirit to salvation is rejecting His message, now He calls many times, but once a person dies they can no longer accept Christ. So they have for all eternity rejected the calling of the Holy Spirit. Again I will ask the question is this Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit? When someone rejects His work in calling to salvation and dies not having responded positively to His call have are they guilty of Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit?
The Pharisees were attributing the Holy Spirits work in Christ to that of Satan, they reject the Holy Spirit as Christ guide, they rejected the message of the Spirit of God and that brought Jesus to say they were on the verge of Blaspheme of the Holy spirit and were close to eternal damnation. What kept them from being eternal damned they were still alive. So when would they become guilty of Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, at physical death. Thus rejecting the Holy Spirits call and the salvation offered by Christ death.