The Sabbath by Christ in Isaiah

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Not in the light of Exodus 31. God is immutable. He doesn't change.
He gave the Sabbath as a sign of his covenant between him and the nation of Israel and their generations forever. Unless there is a direct command, a statement somewhere that revokes that command, then the command is given only to the nation of Israel and not to the NT Christian. All of Scripture is in harmony with each other. There are no contradictions. Your position, along with Dr. Walters, makes the Bible contradict itself. The Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel, and only the nation of Israel. That has never been revoked.

GE:


Absolutely! "that has never been revoked" ... "the light of Exodus 31. God is immutable. He doesn't change"!! PRAISE GOD!

You read verse 17 of that chapter, DHK. Read it in the Hebrew : "The LORD on the Seventh Day REVIVED"!

"Refreshed” (KJV) is but a euphemism for "raised up from the dead". ('Nephesh' or something is it, I cannot so suddenly recall all the particulars.) But compare Isaiah 57:15, an equivalent, the Messiah "RESTED-UP"; and in prophetic vein He according to 58:14 "delighted" Himself "in the LORD" Who "caused HIM to RIDE UPON THE HIGH PLACES OF THE EARTH". See the fulfillment of this Prophetic Promise in Ephesians 1:20,21.

And, dear DHK, discover the Commandment that followers of the "LAMB STANDING", IN "HEAVEN", "on the Mount Zion" Revelation 14:1,2, are to "feast Sabbaths". Colossians 2:16.

 

[DHK]

GE:
Absolutely! "that has never been revoked" ... "the light of Exodus 31. God is immutable. He doesn't change"!! PRAISE GOD!

The Lord makes it abundantly clear in Exodus 31 that the Sabbath Day is for the nation of Israel alone; it is a sign of the covenant between them and Jehovah forever. Do you belong to one of those 12 tribes GE? If so, which one? Otherwise, you have no claim to the Sabbath Day.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Lord makes it abundantly clear in Exodus 31 that the Sabbath Day is for the nation of Israel alone; it is a sign of the covenant between them and Jehovah forever. Do you belong to one of those 12 tribes GE? If so, which one? Otherwise, you have no claim to the Sabbath Day.
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GE:


I believe in the GOD of BOTH his People HIS Israel the Israel OF GOD, and the GOD of “the Seventh Day Sabbath _OF_ the LORD GOD”.

I do not believe in the “Israel of God”, or in “the Seventh Day Sabbath of the Lord God”; MUCH LESS believe I in the Israel or any of its tribes that are NOT “the Israel of God”.

What matters is the GOD one believes in. THAT tells which Sabbath is the Lord’s and which one believes, and which People is the Body of Christ’s and which one is a member of.

Exodus 31 as Isaiah 56 and 58 as ALL pertinent Scriptures make it abundantly clear God has always been THIS God : the God of Israel GOD’S, CHOSEN Israel— the God and “LORD OF, the Sabbath”, GOD’S, “holy -”, that is, GOD’S, “chosen day”, which GOD, in mercy and love “FOR man” had made— “for”, first “The MAN”, “the Son of Man” and “Son of God” “the Son by” whom THIS GOD, “spake, THUS CONCERNING the Seventh Day”— “for the good of man” through the worship-rest of “The People of …” THIS, “GOD”— the one and only consistent maintaining GOD “of ALL his works”.

God does not serve the Sabbath; He serves his People; and his People don’t serve the Sabbath; the Sabbaths serves them— serves them to serve God.

To contemplate the consistency of either People or Sabbath is equally vain; they are established and upheld by the consistency of the LORD GOD of both.

 

[billwald]

FROM POST #!: "I came back to Baptist Board on purpose."

The purpose apparently was to change the hearts and minds (theology) of the list owners and everyone on the list. You did not come here to learn anything. Why don't you let the list owners have the last word and go in peace?

I admit to enjoy stirring the pot by asking strange questions but I say my peace and let the list owners have the last word. I have been accused of trolling (not sure exactly what that means - fishing or living under a bridge) because I refuse to beat a dead horse which is possibly why I haven't been kicked off the list.

And occasionally I learn something.

 

[DHK]

GE:


I believe in the GOD of BOTH his People HIS Israel the Israel OF GOD, and the GOD of “the Seventh Day Sabbath _OF_ the LORD GOD”.

I do not believe in the “Israel of God”, or in “the Seventh Day Sabbath of the Lord God”; MUCH LESS believe I in the Israel or any of its tribes that are NOT “the Israel of God”.

What matters is the GOD one believes in. THAT tells which Sabbath is the Lord’s and which one believes, and which People is the Body of Christ’s and which one is a member of.

Exodus 31 as Isaiah 56 and 58 as ALL pertinent Scriptures make it abundantly clear God has always been THIS God : the God of Israel GOD’S, CHOSEN Israel— the God and “LORD OF, the Sabbath”, GOD’S, “holy -”, that is, GOD’S, “chosen day”, which GOD, in mercy and love “FOR man” had made— “for”, first “The MAN”, “the Son of Man” and “Son of God” “the Son by” whom THIS GOD, “spake, THUS CONCERNING the Seventh Day”— “for the good of man” through the worship-rest of “The People of …” THIS, “GOD”— the one and only consistent maintaining GOD “of ALL his works”.

God does not serve the Sabbath; He serves his People; and his People don’t serve the Sabbath; the Sabbaths serves them— serves them to serve God.

To contemplate the consistency of either People or Sabbath is equally vain; they are established and upheld by the consistency of the LORD GOD of both.

The same God gave these commandments:

When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence. (Deuteronomy 22:8)

Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. (Deuteronomy 22:11)

Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. (Deuteronomy 22:12)

Why don't you keep them?

The Sabbath was given to Israel.
So were these commandments.
If you are going to be consistent you will keep them all.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The same God gave these commandments:

When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence. (Deuteronomy 22:8)

Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. (Deuteronomy 22:11)

Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. (Deuteronomy 22:12)

Why don't you keep them?

The Sabbath was given to Israel.
So were these commandments.
If you are going to be consistent you will keep them all.

GE:

What did God ever give anyone besides Israel?

NOTHING except life's breath to expire it again and to appear in the judgment of condemnation after having been given that same life's breath in the resurrection once more.

Being a Calvinist, I learned to distinguish between general grace and saving grace. God gave saving grace to ONLY Israel - the very Israel He ONLY gave the Sabbath to.

 

[DHK]

GE:

What did God ever give anyone besides Israel?

NOTHING except life's breath to expire it again and to appear in the judgment of condemnation after having been given that same life's breath in the resurrection once more.

Being a Calvinist, I learned to distinguish between general grace and saving grace. God gave saving grace to ONLY Israel - the very Israel He ONLY gave the Sabbath to.

If this last paragraph is true then you should apostatize from the Christian faith and become a Jew. You claim that only they (not Christ) have saving faith. This is a denial of the Christian faith; a denial of Christ and his atoning sacrifice; a denial of Christ as the Messiah.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If this last paragraph is true then you should apostatize from the Christian faith and become a Jew. You claim that only they (not Christ) have saving faith. This is a denial of the Christian faith; a denial of Christ and his atoning sacrifice; a denial of Christ as the Messiah.

GE:

And so DHK highly satisfied with his final blow to the 'denial of the Christian faith', I gather, rests his case....

Peace
GE

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

By the way, re: DHK :
"DHK:
The same God gave these commandments:

When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence. (Deuteronomy 22:8)

Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. (Deuteronomy 22:11)

Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. (Deuteronomy 22:12)

Why don't you keep them?

The Sabbath was given to Israel.
So were these commandments.
If you are going to be consistent you will keep them all."

GE:

I in fact DO boast I keep them ALL, my "_LIFE_ being hid in God WITH CHRIST". Compare Colossians 2:10-13 Romans 6:6 Galatians 2:20 5:18-26 ET AL.

 

[Dr. Walter]

The Creational Sabbath is referred to twice in the giving of the Ten Commandments and two different reasons are given for the people of God to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it.

First, they are to observe it because it commemorates a creation where there was SINLESS REST between God and all of His creation (Ex. 20).

Second, they are to observe it because it commemorates REDEMPTIVE REST between God and His elect in type by bringing God's people out of Egypt (type of Christ's redemption) - this is an event forward from creation.

Paul takes up the redemptive design of the creation sabbath in Hebrews 4:1-11. All the elect, both Old and New Testament enter into SPIRITUAL peace/rest when they believe in the gospel (Heb. 4:1-3) but SPIRITUAL REST does not fulfill the Creational Sabbath design and so believers in the Old Testament still observed a sabbath.

Joshua brought the people of God into a LAND of rest (type) but Canaan was not the fulfillment of the creational Sabbath design and therefore there remained a Sabbath day observance under Joshua and will remain until the TYPE (land rest) is fulfilled.

David brought the people of God into REST from all their enemies in a LAND of rest but they still observed the Sabbath because what David did was only a TYPE and so there remained a Sabbath day observance for the people of God under David and a Sabbath observance will remain for the people of God until the TYPE (rest from all enemies) is fulfilled.

The work of Christ ("he" - v. 10) is commemorated by a Sabbath day observance just as the work of God was commemorated by a Sabbath day observance but a BETTER Sabbath day observance as the work of Christ is what will obtain the actual fulfillment seen in the first creational Sabbath - perfect sinless rest between God and all creation - it is that rest that is YET FUTURE (v. 11) and that is why there "remaineth a sabbath observance for the people of God" (v. 9 "sabbatismos" rather than "pauo" - vv. 1-8)

This is the day we will rejoice and be glad in (Psa. 118:24) as it is the day that commemorates the redemptive work of Christ (Acts 4:10-11) and is "the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) set apart to be observed by resting from all of our own works (Isa. 58:13) but is very consistent with doing the works of God.

What you both are missing is the fact that this Sabbath established in creation predated the public establishments of both covenant administrations. It predated the public establishment of the Old Covenant at Mount Sinai which remembered the Sabbath in the past but anticipated its fulfillment in TYPE. The public establishment of the New Testament administration in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ furnished the work to bring the TYPE into the fruition of reality thus placing greater anticipation upon the future fulfillment when all creation once again will be brought back into perfect sinless rest with God.

The Old Covenant application with Israel will have its fulfillment in the Seventh Millennium but the New Covenant application with Israel and all of God's elect will have its full and eternal fulfillment in the EIGHTH and ETERNAL day of the New heavens and new earth.

This is precisely why the Sabbath command incoporates both the seventh and first/eight day applications in the TYPE to Israel (Lev. 23,25). The work of Christ establishes the Sabbath observance on a BETTER DAY (first, eighth) simply because it anticipates and commemorates the BETTER fulfillment of the creational sabbath. This is seen clearly in the Sabbatical MONTH which is both the SEVENTH and FIRST month in the two calendar Jewish years (civil, religious).

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK:
Nor a believer. Not one.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and not one of those Scriptures is a command to the believer to keep the Sabbath, not one.

GE:
See how you get entangled in your own words, only because of the futility of your argument. At the beginning, your words were, “Not one verse that you quote--not one! gives a command for a _Gentile_ believer to keep the Sabbath.” Now it is anyone, “not one of those Scriptures is a command to the _believer_ to keep the Sabbath”. So is your judgment no one before the Christian age were believers?

Another fall of yours into your own Vietnamese booby trap, is—
“Do you keep the Sabbath on Saturday as commanded?
Do you keep it as the Lord commands you to--no work on Saturday--no making of coffee or tea, no preparing of any food whatsoever, no turning on of electricity (equivalent to their work in their day), etc.”

[[...and I answered: Not one verse gives a command which is not from the God of the believer to keep the Sabbath. Not one.

Not one verse in the Bible which the God of The People of God had given them in sacred trust and everlasting faithfulness, had not been fulfilled in fullness through Jesus Christ and in Him, through the Resurrection of Him from the dead in "RESTING-UP" AND "REVIVING" IN TIME, "IN THE LORD'S DAY".]]

You only further confirm that you miss the point, DHK, that not one verse in the New or Old Testaments gives a command for the unbeliever to keep the Sabbath. God made the Sabbath for, or gave it to, only, HIS, People WITH WHOM GOD IDENTIFIES HIMSELF TIME AND AGAIN WITHOUT EXCEPTION for being believers, no matter whether they come from heathen or Israelite lineage.

Again you are hunting down non-Scriptural phantoms of your, imagination. Every time yours is the exact same ABSTRACT argument in scarcely different words. It lacks depth and width, but not length.

Besides, what my ‘keeping’ of the Sabbath has to do with its validity for Christians, is meaningless. What counts as obligatory for the Christian, is what Christ and his words and deeds OF LIFE were, are, and will be.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK:
The Lord's People are not commanded to keep "The Sabbath Day." We are not the nation of Israel. What tribe do you belong to?

GE:
The Lord's People ARE commanded to keep "The Sabbath Day." We ARE the nation of Israel. We all belong to the Tribe of Christ like all Israel before us belonged to the Tribe of Christ.
DHK, do you belong to the Tribe of Christ?

[["THE SON OF MAN" of Whom Isaiah in chapter 56 prophecies, is “the Son of Man who is "LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY"— the very Sabbath Day Isaiah in chapter 56 prophecies of, declaring : "Blessed is the Son of Man that KEEPETH THE SABBATH DAY".]]

WHO, says Isaiah, is He?
“Thou Israel, art My Servant, Jacob Whom I have CHOSEN, _THE SEED_ of Abraham my friend. (“He saith not, And to seeds as of many; but as of ONE, And to THY SEED, which is Christ.”) … And I will bring forth A SEED out of Jacob, and out of Judah an INHERITOR … MINE ELECT shall inherit … and my servants (Christ’s Church) shall dwell there … (in) a PLACE to lie down in for the Herds : for MY PEOPLE (the Congregations of Jesus “that Good Shepherd”): have sought Me.”
Then WE, the New Testament Believers and “Body of Christ’s Own”, are the posterity and “Inheritance” of “The Seed which is Christ”; then we are “the riches of the glory of his (our Lord Jesus Christ’s), Inheritance … his Inheritance in the saints.” The saints are “the Inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and of God”. Ephesians 1:14; 5:5 (Colossians 1:12,13)

WE, are of His Tribe! WE, are Jesus Christ’s “REWARD”. Colossians 3:24. WE, are the “Heirs of Salvation”— “Salvation” which is Christ! “He hath by INHERITANCE OBTAINED a more excellent Name than angels.” Hebrews 1:14,4. Because angels are not of the Seed of Christ, and are no inheritors of His like “The People of God”, “the Body of Christ’s Own”— NEW Testament “Sabbaths’-Feast-” Believers, are. Hebrews 4:9 Colossians 2:16.

DHK, you always ask people, ‘Are you reborn?’ Now I ask you, DHK, are you reborn into the Tribe of Jacob and into the Inheritance of the Seed, Jesus Christ and into the Kingdom of Christ and of God?

Have you become --- have you been reborn --- an Inheritance of Jesus Christ, into the True and Spiritual, Israel of God?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Creational Sabbath is referred to twice in the giving of the Ten Commandments and two different reasons are given for the people of God to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it.

First, they are to observe it because it commemorates a creation where there was SINLESS REST between God and all of His creation (Ex. 20).

Second, they are to observe it because it commemorates REDEMPTIVE REST between God and His elect in type by bringing God's people out of Egypt (type of Christ's redemption) - this is an event forward from creation.
.............................

GE:

It is NOT “the Creational Sabbath … referred to twice in the giving of the Ten Commandments”. In the Exodus 20 “giving”, it was “the Creational Sabbath”; in the Deuteronomy “giving”, the ‘Sabbath’ was ALTOGETHER A RE-INSTITUTION of “the Sabbath” with NO reference to or relation with “the Creational Sabbath” any longer.

Therefore the “two different reasons … given for the people of God to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it.

Amen!

I only wonder what could cause God to change his mind so long time after to change its whole setting, seeing “they are to observe it because it commemorates REDEMPTIVE REST between God and His elect in type by bringing God's people out of Egypt (type of Christ's redemption) - this is an event forward from creation.”?

God gave the exact same “reason” “given for the people of God to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it” in Deuteronomy as in Exodus— THE REASON DESCRIBED BETWEEN GENESIS 2:3 AND 3:8!! Wherefore God as the Sabbath Day began it having become “evening-cool-of-day” already after the Sixth Day, began HIS, _WORK_, OF RE-STORATION, RE-CONCILIATION AND RE-DEMPTION : of “ALL the works of God … ON THE SEVENTH DAY”, Hebrews 4:4!

THIS "reason" of Atonement for and Salvation from SIN, only, can explain why the two Fourth Commandments differ so drastically. They were after all "given", the same time for all practical reasons, and BOTH, directly AFTER the exodus!


Therefore your observation, "First, they are to observe it because it commemorates a creation where there was SINLESS REST between God and all of His creation (Ex. 20)", Dr Walter, does not hold water. Adam's innocence and righteousness did not last one day, is a Scripture saying somewhere.

 

[Dr. Walter]

GE:

It is NOT “the Creational Sabbath … referred to twice in the giving of the Ten Commandments”. In the Exodus 20 “giving”, it was “the Creational Sabbath”; in the Deuteronomy “giving”, the ‘Sabbath’ was ALTOGETHER A RE-INSTITUTION of “the Sabbath” with NO reference to or relation with “the Creational Sabbath” any longer.

Therefore the “two different reasons … given for the people of God to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it.

Amen!

I only wonder what could cause God to change his mind so long time after to change its whole setting, seeing “they are to observe it because it commemorates REDEMPTIVE REST between God and His elect in type by bringing God's people out of Egypt (type of Christ's redemption) - this is an event forward from creation.”?

God gave the exact same “reason” “given for the people of God to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it” in Deuteronomy as in Exodus— THE REASON DESCRIBED BETWEEN GENESIS 2:3 AND 3:8!! Wherefore God as the Sabbath Day began it having become “evening-cool-of-day” already after the Sixth Day, began HIS, _WORK_, OF RE-STORATION, RE-CONCILIATION AND RE-DEMPTION : of “ALL the works of God … ON THE SEVENTH DAY”, Hebrews 4:4!

THIS "reason" of Atonement for and Salvation from SIN, only, can explain why the two Fourth Commandments differ so drastically. They were after all "given", the same time for all practical reasons, and BOTH, directly AFTER the exodus!


Therefore your observation, "First, they are to observe it because it commemorates a creation where there was SINLESS REST between God and all of His creation (Ex. 20)", Dr Walter, does not hold water. Adam's innocence and righteousness did not last one day, is a Scripture saying somewhere.

Your response makes no sense! There are two different reasons given by Moses to remember the Sabbath. The sabbath that is remembered is the creational sabbath. It is a sinful and rebellious generation that is called upon to "remember" the Sabbath as it commemorates God's finished work of creation - a creation that was WITHOUT SIN - perfect rest between God and creation. This is the Exodus 20 remembrance.

Deuteronomy 5 gives an entirely different reason, but a reason that is complimentary to the Exodus 20 reason for remembering the creational sabbath - redemption from Egypt which is a TYPE of the redemption that Christ would provide yet future.


8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Hence, they are called to remember the Creational Sabbath for two different reasons.

Likewise, the fourth commandment is inclusive of all applications of the Sabbath law by God. You cannot restrict the Sabbath law to a narrower scope than God's own application of that Law. There is no command to keep any day "of the week" within the fourth commandment, although, such an application is consistent with that law. Hence, it is consistent to apply it to a certain day "of the week" but it cannot be restricted to such as it is equally appllied to different days of the week and greater periods of time than the 24 hour day just as the term "day" in Genesis 2:5 is applied to greater periods of time than 24 hours. However, the fourth commandment can be equally applied to ANY day "of the week" just as long as six days precede it or any greater periods of time just as long as six periods of equal time precede it (Lev. 23, 25).

God's intent behind the Sabbath is found in the two reasons given to "remember" it. (1) Sabbath rest between God and creation; (2) Restoration of that rest through redemption.

The Sabbath Law is designed to be applied to days that reflect both of these truths as clearly seen in the application by God in Leviticus 23-25.

The Seventh month of the civil year BECAME the FIRST month of the religious year which began with the FIRST day Sabbath of that month. The civil and religious calandar reflects the TOTAL LIFE of the Jew. The SEVENTH month which became the FIRST month was also the REDEMEMPTIVE month as it was the month of the Great day of Atonement.

Likewise the Seventh day Sabbath of the Old Covenant that commemorated creation BECAME the first day Sabbath of the New Covenant which commemorates the finished work of redemption by Christ that ushers in the greater creation wherein the more perfect creation of a new heaven and earth where no sin will ever enter and is the EIGHTH eternal day of rest. Whereas the SEVENTH day of the Old Covenant finds its antitype in the SEVENTH millennium for the Jews in a RESTORED earth at the final end of this present sin cursed creation.

Those who keep the SEVENTH day Sabbath reject the greater work of Jesus Christ, reject the NEW covenant of redemption and typically are back under the OLD calandar and its SEVENTH month rather than the NEW religoius calandar as the FIRST month and REDEMPTIVE calander. You are living under the OLD Covenant Calander and its bondage of restrictions. Those who assert the Old Covenant SEVENTH day Sabbath must also assert all the ceremonial restrictions that the Old Covenant demand for Sabbath keeping.

In contrast those who come under the NEW covenant FIRST day Sabbath are free from all those legalistic restrictions but can "REJOICE AND BE GLAD IN IT" as an expression of their liberty and freedom from the Law in Christ.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Ex 12:2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.

The Jewish calendar had two distinct years. The civil year where Tishri was the SEVENTH month and the religious year where Tishri was the FIRST month. Hence, the same Tishri was both the Seventh and the First month in two separate calendar years.

These two calendar years reflect the OLD and NEW covenants just like the Levitical Feasts are OLD covenant feasts that typify NEW covenant truths.

Those who advocate the SEVENTH day Sabbath are like those Jews living under the OLD seventh month Tishri calendar with all of its legal restrictions. The old covenant was designed to RESTRICT the unregenerate nature and that is why the moral law of God in the Old Covenant is characterized by the word "not."

In contrast, those who advocate the FIRST day Sabbath are like those living under the NEW first month Tishri calendar with all of its New Covenant types which typify the LIBERTY and FREEDOM in Christ designed for the regenerate nature and that is why the same moral law of God in the New Covenant is characterized by the word "love" and "liberty."

The SEVENTH became the FIRST. You cannot restrict the Sabbath Law to the exclusion of the Sabbath applications made by God Himself. In all the New Covenant types the Sabbath application is to the FIRST of days, months and years.

The SEVENTH day Sabbath finds its fulfillment in the final and complete millennium of this present sin cursed earth in the restoration of the earth in the day of the Lord. The FIRST day Sabbath is fulfilled in the NEVER ENDING eight day millennium of a NEW new heaven and earth - a NEW creation.

The Lord's Day is the New Covenant application of the fourth commandment on the FIRST day rather than the LAST day of the week. The observance of the FIRST day Sabbath is LIBERTY from the restrictive legalism of the Old Covenant and freedom to worship and we will "REJOICE AND BE GLAD IN IT."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

……………..
Paul takes up the redemptive design of the creation sabbath in Hebrews 4:1-11. All the elect, both Old and New Testament enter into SPIRITUAL peace/rest when they believe in the gospel (Heb. 4:1-3) but SPIRITUAL REST does not fulfill the Creational Sabbath design and so believers in the Old Testament still observed a sabbath.

GE:
The writer of the Letter to the Hebrews, “takes up the redemptive design of the creation sabbath in Hebrews 4:1-11.”

You are absolutely right about “the _REDEMPTIVE_ design” : and the redemptive design “of the _CREATION_ sabbath”. That says, “the design …of the creation sabbath”, was “_REDEMPTIVE_”.

“The creation sabbath” in every respect, IS, “redemptive”! But that is in conflict with what you have before alleged, that “the people of God (are) to "remember" the Sabbath and observe it … because it commemorates a creation where there was SINLESS REST between God and all of His creation”.

How correctly do you observe, “All the elect, _BOTH_ Old and New Testament enter into SPIRITUAL peace/rest when they believe in the _GOSPEL_. And how apt is you reference to “Heb. 4:1-3”! What you say is true, and o so true of “_ALL_ the elect”— which includes Adam and Eve from the moment they entered into paradise through the creation of God, and as soon as they acted out their own free will and sinned; and were cast out of Eden and “God swore in his wrath, they shall not enter into (My) rest” … but not before God through the very Gospel of Jesus Christ, made atonement for their sin and reconciliation with a Righteous God again. Genesis 3:20-24 Hebrews 3:3.

Hebrews in this place speaks of the CREATION, which is clear from the words, “…although God’s works (of creation) were finished FROM THE FOUNDATION (creation) of the world”.
I cannot understand why people won’t accept this truth; maybe because it is that if sin entered in before the Sabbath Day had begun, the Sabbath inevitably received ‘salvific value’ (as the Americans say) and the creation-motive obsessed are disappointed in their myth of “SINLESS REST between God and all of His creation” on the first of the Seventh Day Sabbaths and for long thereafter.

So you are not only contradicting yourself, surmising “SPIRITUAL REST does not fulfill the Creational Sabbath design”; you contradict the bare facts of the written Word in Genesis as well as its implications in the Laws given after the exodus.

The only thing that “fulfil(s) the Creational Sabbath design” in Genesis, is the “SPIRITUAL REST” of “the Gospel preached unto us as well as unto them” which was and is the Gospel of Jesus Christ— of Christ “the all in all fulfilling FULLNESS OF GOD”.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Your response makes no sense! There are two different reasons given by Moses to remember the Sabbath. The sabbath that is remembered is the creational sabbath. It is a sinful and rebellious generation that is called upon to "remember" the Sabbath as it commemorates God's finished work of creation - a creation that was WITHOUT SIN - perfect rest between God and creation. This is the Exodus 20 remembrance.
.....................................

GE:

Mind your own logic and reasoning in this observation of yours. "The sabbath that is remembered is the creational sabbath. It is a sinful and rebellious generation that is called upon to "remember" the Sabbath ..."

"t is a sinful and rebellious generation that is called upon to "remember" the Sabbath"; "The sabbath that is remembered is the creational sabbath."

Anyhow...

I have had LONG discussions on Baptist Board with Bob Ryan about exactly your interpretation you give us here.

Let me state my understanding, and you will see what I hold against your understanding (as against that of Bob Ryan).

Actually I can only explain my view by QUOTING the relevant Scripture (It is most clear when word for word to the Hebrew, which I cannot do for lack of soft ware. (Not in my head, by the way.)),
"The Seventh Day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God … BECAUSE in six days the LORD had made heaven and earth … and the Seventh Day RESTED : WHEREFORE the LORD blessed the Seventh Day …".

I cannot say it too many times or with too much emphasis, let us STOP arguing the Sabbath from our human point of view which is the approach based on our human works and achievement. We can only hope to begin understand something about “the giant scope of the Sabbath” (Calvin, Barth) once we have made a positive attempt at approaching its understanding FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF GOD AND OF GOD’S WORKS AND ACHIEVEMENT.

Note the REASON WHY in the Fourth Commandment WHY God’s People must “remember the Sabbath to keep it holy.” It is not first and foremost to remember the creation per se; the REASON WHY is virtually SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY "… BECAUSE the LORD the Seventh Day RESTED : WHEREFORE the LORD blessed the Seventh Day". “God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake : “And God the Seventh from all his works _RESTED_!”. And that – GOD’S REST – from the beginning, the beginning of both creation and redemption, was WHY the People of God were commanded to “Remember the Sabbath Day and keep it holy.” Not man’s doing was to be remembered; GOD’S doing, by resting the Seventh Day, was to be remembered.

Now as soon as that is understood, it follows that God’s works of the Seventh Day was his work of Redemption and NOT OF CREATION THAT SHOULD BE REMEMBERED AND OBSERVED AND CELEBRATED.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

We shall, God willing, get to as much as possible of what you have been preaching, Dr Walter, in due time. It cannot be done with a retort or two.

 

[Dr. Walter]

The Creational Sabbath has to do with THIS creation and the Sabbath command in Exodus has to do with the OLD covenant in remembrance of THIS creation. The OLD covenant Sabbath reminds those doomed with THIS CREATION that it was created WITHOUT SIN. They are called on to "remember" what God commemorated by the creational sabbath - a sinless creation at PEACE with God. THIS creation is doomed by sin and it will end with a firery finish at the end of the seventh millennium which also fulfils the Old Covenant SEVENTH day Sabbath. This seventh millennium begins with the salvation of all Israel and restoration of this earth under the reign of Christ thus fulfilling the SEVENTH day Sabbath. Whereas the FIRST day Sabbath finds its fulfillment in the EIGHTH or ETERNAL day with the NEW CREATION of a NEW heaven and a NEW earth.

The fourth commanment has an OLD COVEANT application as well as a NEW COVENANT application. The OLD covenant application has to do with THIS creation and the SEVENTH day, month, year. The NEW covenant application has to do with the transformation into the FIRST day, month year as typified in the Levitical Feasts - pictures of New Covenant truths.

Dual Jewish calendar years demonstrate that the SEVENTH becomes the FIRST under the NEW covenant. The Old Covenant Sabbath and the life under that calendar year is symbolized by SEVEN and completed in the seventh millennium at the conclusion of which THIS creation commemorated under the OLD covenant by the fourth commandment is burned.

The NEW covvenant Sabbath and the life under that calendar year is symbolized by FIRST and is the ETERNAL DAY begun at the end of the Seventh Millennium with a NEW heaven and earth or NEW creation.

You cannot see the transition of the fourth commandment application because you cannot see the transition where the SEVENTH month becomes the FIRST in the religious calendar year. Neither can you see the passing away of the fourth commandment under the OLD Covenant with the transition of the NEW covenant application of the same moral law. The Levitical Old Covenant fourth commandment application is inseparable from all the legalistic restraints that accompany it in regard to the unregenerate nature. As long as you claim the SEVENTH day application of the fourth commandment you must abide by all its levitical restraints. The New Covenant application of the fourth commandment emphasizes the redemptive liberty in Christ typified by the giving of the SECOND law (deuter-onomy) and the FIRST day application. The month of Tishri became the FIRST month of the NEW year and it began with a FIRST day Sabbath characterized by the day of atonement found in the FIRST month which typified the NEW covenant under Christ and his completion of his redemptive work on the FIRST day of the week.

Paul's point in Hebrews 4 is that spiritual rest begins with faith in the NEW COVENANT gospel but is not fulfilled until we are spirit, soul and body made like unto Christ in the New Creation. The New creation begins with the new birth but it is not completed until there is a EXTERNAL new creation as well. That is the future rest we are yet to enter - (Heb. 4:11) that is beyond the SEVENTH millennium into the EIGHTH and eternal day of a NEW creation of a NEW heaven and a NEW earth.

GE you are simply wrong. You need to shed the legalistic Seventh day Old Covenant Sabbath that commemorates THIS creation and which will be fulfilled in the SEVENTH Millennium by a restoration of this earth ending in its firey conclusion. You need to enter into the Sabbath that commemorates the NEW covenant which will not be fulfilled until the EIGHTH and ETERNAL millennium with a NEW heaven and a NEW earth where its is the FIRST and never anything less than the FIRST which is commemorated under the NEW Covenant upon the FIRST day of the week.

 

[DHK]

The Creational Sabbath has to do with THIS creation and the Sabbath command in Exodus has to do with the OLD covenant in remembrance of THIS creation.

You are making this theology up as you go along, pulling a little from one source and a little from another. It is not totally Biblical.
First, there is a principle to draw from the seven days of creation--that God rested on the seventh day. The principle to learn is that man should set apart one day out of seven to rest. Nothing more can be ascertained out of that passage than that. To eisigete anything more is wrong.

Second, do away with the word "sabbath." Christians don't have a "sabbath," and don't need one. We need a Sabbath just as bad as we need a "Juma" or the Muslim holy day of Friday. What is the difference? None. The only reason Christians worship on Sunday is to remember and/or respect the resurrection of Jesus Christ. There is no command to to worship on that day, and certainly no command to worship on Saturday, the sabbath day. We are not bound by days. All days are made FOR man (ie., the believer in Christ).