They have accepted the Lord...

[Salty]

Tim and Matt

We see the "extremes" of two sides. And I think that is the point of this thread. As Tim said "because we will be praying for the Holy Spirit to convict them.. and for them to turn around.. "

Matts point of view is "plenty of examples in the NT of the church being told to disassociate with those in open unrepentant sin."

Now should we seek a middle ground?
Do we want those in unrepeated sin to attend - I would say the answer is yes (unless they are causing major problems) but even if they are attending they can be a bad influence to young Christians in the church.

Now would we both agree that such person - if a member, should NOT be in any leadership position?

Interesting thread - appreciate all the responses so far.

 

[abcgrad94]

I think there's a difference between "unrepentant" sin and "besetting" sin. A person who is addicted to cigarettes may not be able to suddenly give it up. That doesn't make the person unrepentant. Same with overeating. Same with gossip, a bad temper, lust, etc. Trying and failing is different from not wanting to try to change bad habits at all.

If we wait for everyone to be perfect, none of us would be allowed to serve. Baby Christians aren't going to know everything right off the bat. That's why qualifications for leadership roles (elder, deacon, deacon's wives) are clearly defined in scripture. We should lovingly teach and show patience, not automatically condemn and disassociate with those who are struggling with besetting sins.

 

[matt wade]

IA person who is addicted to cigarettes may not be able to suddenly give it up.

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

I was addicted to cigarettes. I become convicted of that sin and repented of it. I prayed for God to give me the strength to overcome my addiction. I instantly stopped smoking and haven't had another cigarette in 10 years. All the praise belongs to God. He took it from me. So, yes, a person that is addicted to cigarettes is able to give it up suddenly if they place their trust in God to take the addiction away.

The reason most people can't quit is because they don't really want to quit and they go into it thinking it will be too hard. If they give themselves and their addiction over to God, He will take it from them.

 

[tinytim]

I agree to the "Not in a leadership position"...

 

[Mexdeaf]

The examples of Jesus in the NT that you bring up don't have anything to do with church membership. There are plenty of examples in the NT of the church being told to disassociate with those in open unrepentant sin.

Based on your thoughts on this thread, can I also assume that your church doesn't practice church discipline?

Um, weren't they ALREADY church members?? Think, son- think!

 

[matt wade]

Um, weren't they ALREADY church members?? Think, son- think!

Is your position that inconsistent? Do you believe that we should go through church discipline and disassociate with open, unrepentant sinners, yet allow open, unrepentant sinners to join as members? Obviously if we are to disassociate with them, we should also not let them join when they are in that state.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Is your position that inconsistent? Do you believe that we should go through church discipline and disassociate with open, unrepentant sinners, yet allow open, unrepentant sinners to join as members? Obviously if we are to disassociate with them, we should also not let them join when they are in that state.

I don't think I am being inconsistent at all. No one here is denying church discipline, at least not that I have seen.

First we need to define what constitutes an 'open, unrepentant sinner' and then determine the difference between an 'open, unrepentant sinner' who has been a church member and an 'open, unrepentant sinner' (albeit one who professes to be saved) who just desires to join. The wisdom of Solomon may be required here.

 

[Tater77]

So in order to join the body of Christ we must be perfect? So Christ only died for those who are in Church, have "their hearts right" with Him, are sin free and feel no temptation? NO Scripture says this:

For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.​

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
​

From Romans 5

We are justified before God through Christ, not our works. Concerning the hyper-critical judgment found in many Churches today.

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matt 7:1-2​

You will be judged by the standards you hold others to. Me , I want Grace and forgiveness so that's what I'm gonna show others.

I'm sorry but I just get disgusted with the whole subject. NNE IS PERFECT, not the one being judged and especially not the one doing the judging (matt 7:4-5).

Don't these people realize that they are the most responsible for the decline of the influence of the Church today. People are aware that the Bible says these things but all the see in the pews are judgmental hypocrites ready at a moments notice to judge them into oblivion.

Blackbird posted it right, only God knows who belongs to Him. Its the Lords house not a social club. There are those who need to be kept out, its just that people get out of control on this.

 

[Alive in Christ]

They have accepted the Lord....

and now want to join your church.... but - there is a situation....


You fill in the blank ___________
shacking up, alcoholic, heavy smoker, gambler, someone who got a speeding ticket, wife beater, a mother breaks a promise to her daughter, homosexual.....

Would you allow any of the above individual to join your church?
does the severity of the individual sin make a difference,

If not, why not?, if so - why

They should be fully excepted, with open arms, just as they are.

Why? Because they just got born again! They just accepted Christ.

There is no such thing as "instant sanctification"

Its an ongoing process for the rest of our lives.

AiC

 

[pinoybaptist]

They should be fully excepted, with open arms, just as they are.

Why? Because they just got born again! They just accepted Christ.

There is no such thing as "instant sanctification"

Its an ongoing process for the rest of our lives.

AiC

wonderful....then they start getting badgered by other members because of their lifestyles, or habits, or vices.
then they start hearing preaching that seems to be targeting them and making them think, "what the....so that means I am not born again".
then the members start applying the "soft" approach, like, avoid their company and all that bull dung.

makes no sense to me.
drove me nuts when I first got converted, and drove me away from the company of all you holy people and actually made me prefer the company of what we call "the sinners" because they seem to understand me better than you Bible toting folks.

I was a smoker, a movie goer, a lover of occassional beer here and there and lots of hard liquor anytime, a brawler, but ONE THING has changed within me: my heart was turned TO Jesus Christ, I had a hunger for His word, and a desire to be with His people.

And the Baptist church I joined accepted me after all that "let's hear how the Lord has brought home one more of His own" Wednesday afternoon testimony time, and "hallelujah, we're dipping another of God's children this Sunday, ain't our God good."

Such excitement !
After all, here's this atheist, underground, covert red fighter everybody's been looking for and God hid him in plain sight so He could bring Him home to His kingdom, allelujah !

They SHOULDN'T have baptized me into membership. They SHOULDN'T have given those "anybody-here-being-spoken-to-by-the-Holy-Spirit-to-follow-the-Lord-into-the-waters-of-baptism" yadayadayada which,whether or not true, I believe was directed to me.

They SHOULD have waited for me to come voluntarily. The eunuch was not prompted by Philip, Paul wasn't prompted by Ananias to be baptized, it was the Lord who knew Saul was ready for the church.

No.
I wouldn't accept them into membership while in the grip of, or living in, open sin, only to subject them to convicting preaching and, later, worse, to church discipline.

They are welcome to come to church anytime, and be convicted by the Spirit to cleanse their lives, and THEN they can volunteer to be added into the local body, to abide by its covenant before God, and to live a sanctified life before the Gentiles, to the praise of their Lord and King, Jesus Christ.

 

[Old Union Brother]

I have been reluctant to post but with a few words.....

They may have accepted the Lord but has the Lord accepted them?

It wasn't that easy for me!

 

[Alive in Christ]

Wow. Some the posts on this threas are really sad.

Lets see...

They have just been born again, but havent "cleaned up" acceptably enough to be a REAL part of the family.

And yet, the when they accepted Christ and were born of the Spirit, Almighty God instantly placed them..just as they are..into His "church", the universal church...otherwise known as the Kingdom of God, or the Body of Christ.

I think it wise to heed the example that God gives us.

 

[nodak]

I think maybe we get a wee bit confused, thinking that unless someone is a voting member of the local church they are not in the Kingdom.

I also believe we could learn a bit from some of the holiness folks around us in this matter.

They welcome with open arms all kinds of sinners. They earnestly seek their salvation, and when they get saved, they earnestly seek to help them find God's help in victory over besetting sins.

But they have their membership requirements in black and white, and folks that ask to join are given those requirements and given time to decide if they can abide by them.

If not, they are still welcomed with open arms to attend. Depending on what the dealbreaker re membership is, they may be allowed to serve in some capacities provided they agree not to teach contrary to church doctrine.

Membership in the local church isn't equated with salvation, it is equated with signing up for ministry.

As one friend was told "Only God knows who is in His army. But if you want to be in our platoon you abide by the platoon regs."

I mean, really, if a practicing pedophile, determined to continue his actions wants to join your church, testifying to having "accepted the Lord", will you vote him in and hope for the best?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Recently lead a couple to the Lord and Baptized them. They have had children together but are not married. They attend church but cannot join until the get married.

Praise God that you have led this couple to the Lord, but I would not have baptized them until they got married. What was stopping them?

We adopted this position in my church. The couple in question are now married, baptized, in membership and expecting their first baby.

In that order.

Steve

 

[Salty]

... and folks that ask to join are given those requirements and given time to decide if they can abide by them.

True, BUT, in many churches when someone gets saved on Sun AM, they are immediately asked if they want to be baptized, possibly that evening. An on-the-spot-, "I think you want me to answer Yes" is given. Then of course, baptism is the automatic gate to membership. All this happens without the individual knowing what really went on.

Now, as Nodak said if someone asks to be baptized... that is another story....

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Would you allow any of the above individual to join your church?
does the severity of the individual sin make a difference,

The issue isn't the severity of the sin, but the attitude toward the sin.

Is the person exhibiting good fruit otherwise and perhaps just got caught up in a season of sin or a momentary moral lapse? Are they remorseful over their sin? Have they repented? Would they repent?

Or is this an ongoing pattern of sin?

Is it willful disobedience? Or is it something the person got caught up in and didn't know how to get out of?

I like the way Todd Friel describes it as being the difference between falling into a pool and diving into a pool.

We're not looking for perfect people who don't sin. We're looking for sinners who have been born again and are warring against sin. We're not here to punish sinners, but to stand with them and to grow in holiness with them.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Recently lead a couple to the Lord and Baptized them. They have had children together but are not married. They attend church but cannot join until the get married.

And that's an important distinction. We allow pretty much anybody who wants to to attend as a guest, but the Bible does give us criteria for membership that must be met.

 

[quantumfaith]

The issue isn't the severity of the sin, but the attitude toward the sin.

Is the person exhibiting good fruit otherwise and perhaps just got caught up in a season of sin or a momentary moral lapse? Are they remorseful over their sin? Have they repented? Would they repent?

Or is this an ongoing pattern of sin?

Is it willful disobedience? Or is it something the person got caught up in and didn't know how to get out of?

I like the way Todd Friel describes it as being the difference between falling into a pool and diving into a pool.

We're not looking for perfect people who don't sin. We're looking for sinners who have been born again and are warring against sin. We're not here to punish sinners, but to stand with them and to grow in holiness with them.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[tinytim]

And that's an important distinction. We allow pretty much anybody who wants to to attend as a guest, but the Bible does give us criteria for membership that must be met.

Where?

Where does the bible even suggest membership and membership rolls in the NT?...

 

[tinytim]

I have been reluctant to post but with a few words.....

They may have accepted the Lord but has the Lord accepted them?

It wasn't that easy for me!

Joh 6:37
(37) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.