NKJV and the TR

[jbh28]

I've heard many say that the NKJV doesn't always go with the TR but uses the same texts that most modern versions use.

Here's one quote:

Not true! Non-TR -- Nearly 800 times!

so, could anyone that is kjvo give some examples. I know it was asked for 5-6 examples. Could we have that. I find it amazing that in all the time discussing this subject I have seen this accusation given, but never can examples be made.

For clarification, I'm not asking for translational differences between the KJV and the NKJV, but differences in textual basis.

 

[TCassidy]

I've heard many say that the NKJV doesn't always go with the TR but uses the same texts that most modern versions use.

Here's one quote:



so, could anyone that is kjvo give some examples. I know it was asked for 5-6 examples. Could we have that. I find it amazing that in all the time discussing this subject I have seen this accusation given, but never can examples be made.

For clarification, I'm not asking for translational differences between the KJV and the NKJV, but differences in textual basis.

No, the KJVOs will not be able to give you examples. The fact is that the differences are the result of the KJV departing from the TR and the NKJV following it.

 

[InTheLight]

No, the KJVOs will not be able to give you examples. The fact is that the differences are the result of the KJV departing from the TR and the NKJV following it.

Very interesting. Could you give some examples? I prefer the NKJV. Some KJV people I know insist the NKJV is defective. I'd like to have some ammunition for my next discussion with them.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Very interesting. Could you give some examples? I prefer the NKJV. Some KJV people I know insist the NKJV is defective. I'd like to have some ammunition for my next discussion with them.

Simply ask them where the NKJV deviates from the TR in any case where the KJV does not.

They will not be able to give you an example.

 

[jbh28]

Simply ask them where the NKJV deviates from the TR in any case where the KJV does not.

They will not be able to give you an example.

Whats funny is that I actually do have one kinda example.

Matthew 22:10b
KJV: "and the wedding was furnished with guests."
NKJV: "And the wedding hall was filled with guests"
NASB: "and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests."

the obvious difference being wedding vs wedding hall.
Wedding hall is the Greek word νυμφών(numphōn).
Wedding is the Greek word γάμος(gamos).

One thing to note is that the NKJV puts "hall" in italics, noting that it wasn't part of the Greek text they were using(TR).

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

So it was a translation choice, not textual.

 

[jbh28]

So it was a translation choice, not textual.

exactly. I heard 800 here and have even hear 1200, but they don't seem to be able to give examples.

 

[Crucified in Christ]

Whats funny is that I actually do have one kinda example.

Matthew 22:10b
KJV: "and the wedding was furnished with guests."
NKJV: "And the wedding hall was filled with guests"
NASB: "and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests."

the obvious difference being wedding vs wedding hall.
Wedding hall is the Greek word νυμφών(numphōn).
Wedding is the Greek word γάμος(gamos).

One thing to note is that the NKJV puts "hall" in italics, noting that it wasn't part of the Greek text they were using(TR).

Which shows, like the italicized KJV clarifications, that the NKJV is very faithful to the TR.

 

[robycop3]

With the 30-plus revisions of the TR in existence, I wouldn't worry about a version departing from the TR in places.

 

[rsr]

Simply ask them where the NKJV deviates from the TR in any case where the KJV does not.

And what of cases where the KJV departs from the TR but the NKJV adheres to it?

Acts 19:20
NKJV: So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.
KJV: So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
Kurios(Lord) is in every edition of the TR.

 

[Logos1560]

I've heard many say that the NKJV doesn't always go with the TR but uses the same texts that most modern versions use.

.

Those many would seem to bear false witness against the NKJV and its translators. Are most other modern English versions translated from an edition of the Textus Receptus as the NKJV is?

 

[Logos1560]

In a good number of places where the NKJV varies in its translating from the KJV it is very similar or the same as the 1560 Geneva Bible.

Luke 1:29 thought (Geneva) cast in her mind (KJV) considered (NKJV)
Luke 1:38 Then (Geneva, NKJV) And (KJV)
Luke 1:65 Then fear (Geneva, NKJV) And fear (KJV)
Luke 2:10 Then the (Geneva, NKJV) And the (KJV)
Luke 2:12 to you (Geneva, NKJV) unto you (KJV)
Luke 2:48 So when they (Geneva, NKJV) And when they (KJV)
Luke 4:32 with authority (Geneva, NKJV) with power (KJV)
Luke 4:41 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Luke 4:41 him to be the Christ (Geneva) he was Christ (KJV) He was
the Christ (NKJV)
Luke 5:7 to their partners (Geneva, NKJV) unto their partners (KJV)
Luke 5:23 sins are (Geneva, NKJV) sins be (KJV)
Luke 5:24 bed (Geneva, NKJV) couch (KJV)
Luke 5:29 Then Levi (Geneva, NKJV) And Levi (KJV)
Luke 6:4 took and ate (Geneva, NKJV) did take and eat (KJV)
Luke 6:22 you, and revile you (Geneva, NKJV) you from their company, and shall reproach you (KJV)
Luke 6:36 of the Most High (Geneva, NKJV) of the Highest (KJV)
Luke 6:42 Hypocrite (Geneva, NKJV) Thou hypocrite (KJV)
Luke 7:7 say the word (Geneva, NKJV) say in a word (KJV)
Luke 7:12 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Luke 7:14 coffin (Geneva) bier (KJV) open coffin (NKJV)
Luke 7:37 sat at table (Geneva) sat at meat (KJV) sat at the table (NKJV)
Luke 7:40 answered and said (Geneva, NKJV) answering said (KJV)
Luke 8:9 Then his (Geneva, NKJV) And his (KJV)
Luke 8:13 But they (Geneva) They (KJV) But the ones (NKJV)
Luke 8:17 come to light (Geneva, NKJV) come abroad (KJV)
Luke 8:21 But he (Geneva) And he (KJV) But he (NKJV)
Luke 8:26 they sailed (Geneva, NKJV) they arrived (KJV)
Luke 8:39 what great things (Geneva, NKJV) how great things (KJV)
Luke 9:41 Then Jesus answered (Geneva, NKJV) And Jesus answering (KJV)
Luke 9:61 at mine house (Geneva) at home at my house (KJV) at my house (NKJV)
Luke 10:9 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Luke 10:17 to us (Geneva, NKJV) unto us (KJV)
Luke 11:30 sign to (Geneva, NKJV) sign unto (KJV)
Luke 11:41 clean to you (Geneva, NKJV) clean unto you (KJV)
Luke 11:47 to you (Geneva, NKJV) unto you (KJV)
Luke 12:36 master (Geneva, NKJV) lord (KJV)
Luke 12:42 master (Geneva, NKJV) lord (KJV)
Luke 12:43 master (Geneva, NKJV) lord (KJV)
Luke 12:45 master (Geneva, NKJV) lord (KJV)
Luke 12:47 master’s (Geneva, NKJV) lord’s (KJV)
Luke 13:2 answered and said (Geneva, NKJV) answering said (KJV)
Luke 13:15 Hypocrite (Geneva, NKJV) Thou hypocrite (KJV)
Luke 13:18 What is the kingdom (Geneva, NKJV) Unto what is the kingdom (KJV)
Luke 13:18 compare it (Geneva, NKJV) resemble it (KJV)
Luke 13:19 made nests (Geneva) lodged (KJV) nested (NKJV)
Luke 14:8 place (Geneva, NKJV) room (KJV)
Luke 14:10 sit at table (Geneva) sit at meat (KJV) sit at the table (NKJV)
Luke 14:21 his master (Geneva, NKJV) his lord (KJV)
Luke 15:1 to hear (Geneva, NKJV) for to hear (KJV)
Luke 15:3 to them (Geneva, NKJV) unto them (KJV)
Luke 15:12 So he divided (Geneva, NKJV) And he divided (KJV)
Luke 15:15 Then he went (Geneva, NKJV) And he went (KJV)
Luke 15:25 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Luke 16:3 my master (Geneva, NKJV) my lord (KJV)
Luke 16:5 his master’s (Geneva, NKJV) his lord’s (KJV)
Luke 16:5 my master (Geneva, NKJV) my lord (KJV)
Luke 16:6 to him (Geneva, NKJV) unto him (KJV)
Luke 16:23 saw Abraham (Geneva, NKJV) seeth Abraham (KJV)
Luke 16:24 Then he cried (Geneva, NKJV) And he cried (KJV)
Luke 16:29 Abraham said (Geneva, NKJV) Abraham saith (KJV)
Luke 17:1 to the disciples (Geneva, NKJV) unto the disciples (KJV)
Luke 17:6 mulberry tree (Geneva, NKJV) sycamine tree (KJV)
Luke 17:6 by the roots (Geneva, NKJV) by the root (KJV)
Luke 17:27 They ate (Geneva, NKJV) They did eat (KJV)
Luke 17:28 they built (Geneva, NKJV) they builded (KJV)
Luke 18:2 in a certain city (Geneva, NKJV) in a city (KJV)
Luke 18:13 to heaven (Geneva, NKJV) unto heaven (KJV)
Luke 18:35 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Luke 19:9 to him (Geneva, NKJV) unto him (KJV)
Luke 20:16 He will come (Geneva, NKJV) He shall come (KJV)
Luke 20:31 Then the third (Geneva, NKJV) And the third (KJV)
Luke 20:34 answered and said (Geneva, NKJV) answering said (KJV)
Luke 20:36 sons of God (Geneva, NKJV) children of God (KJV)
Luke 20:38 the God (Geneva, NKJV) a God (KJV)
Luke 21:19 By your patience (Geneva, NKJV) In your patience (KJV)
Luke 21:36 Watch therefore (Geneva, NKJV) Watch ye therefore (KJV)
Luke 21:38 to hear (Geneva, NKJV) for to hear (KJV)
Luke 22:5 agreed (Geneva, NKJV) covenanted (KJV)
Luke 22:9 to him (Geneva) unto him (KJV) to Him (NKJV)
Luke 22:13 So they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Luke 22:23 Then they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Luke 22:27 For who is greater (Geneva, NKJV) For whether is greater (KJV)
Luke 22:27 at table (Geneva) at meat (KJV) at the table (NKJV)
Luke 22:28 And ye (Geneva) Ye (KJV) But you (NKJV)
Luke 22:40 came to the place (Geneva, NKJV) was at the place (KJV)
Luke 22:57 But he denied (Geneva, NKJV) And he denied (KJV)
Luke 22:58 But Peter said (Geneva, NKJV) And Peter said (KJV)
Luke 23:1 Then the whole (Geneva, NKJV) And the whole (KJV)
Luke 23:2 to pay (Geneva, NKJV) to give (KJV)
Luke 23:5 But they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Luke 23:5 Judea (Geneva, NKJV) Jewry (KJV)
Luke 23:13 Then Pilate (Geneva, NKJV) And Pilate (KJV)
Luke 23:18 to us (Geneva, NKJV) unto us (KJV)
Luke 23:19 insurrection (Geneva, NKJV) sedition (KJV)
Luke 23:23 But they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Luke 23:24 So Pilate (Geneva, NKJV) And Pilate (KJV)
Luke 23:25 insurrection (Geneva, NKJV) sedition (KJV)
Luke 23:27 a great multitude (Geneva, NKJV) a great company (KJV)
Luke 23:32 two others (Geneva, NKJV) two other (KJV)
Luke 23:35 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Luke 23:36 The soldiers also (Geneva, NKJV) And the soldiers also (KJV)
Luke 23:39 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Luke 23:53 tomb (Geneva, NKJV) sepulchure (KJV)
Luke 24:5 said to them (Geneva, NKJV) said unto them (KJV)
Luke 24:28 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Luke 24:30 at table (Geneva) at meat (KJV) at the table (NKJV)
Luke 24:31 Then their (Geneva, NKJV) And their (KJV)

 

[Rippon]

In a good number of places where the NKJV varies in its translating from the KJV it is very similar or the same as the 1560 Geneva Bible.

Good job there L1560. The NKJ deserves some credit,but it apparently piggy-backed the Geneva. How about the Tyndale renderings of the same? Did it pretty much use the same wording as the Geneva? It is surprising that the Geneva (and the Tyndale) version made long before the KJV sounds much more contemporary and natural to us than the latter.

 

[Jerome]

Imagine that.

A "Tyndale" or "Geneva" edition that has been extensively edited for the modern reader strikes us as "more contemporary" or "natural"?

Really?

Who would have thought?

 

[Rippon]

Imagine that.

A "Tyndale" or "Geneva" edition that has been extensively edited for the modern reader strikes us as "more contemporary" or "natural"?

Really?

Who would have thought?

We've gone through this before and I believe that I made my point with multiple citations.

 

[Logos1560]

A "Tyndale" or "Geneva" edition that has been extensively edited for the modern reader strikes us as "more contemporary" or "natural"?

Do you consider present editions of the KJV to have been "extensively edited for the modern reader"?

Are you objecting to presenting the 1560 edition of the Geneva Bible to a similar way that the 1611 edition of the KJV is now presented?

Actually there is much less editing done to the 1560 edition as presented above since only the spelling is updated to match the updating of the spelling done to the 1611 but no words are added, omitted, or changed as was done in the later editing of KJV editions.

In addition, there were a good number of places where present editions of the KJV were edited and revised to match renderings already found in the 1560 Geneva Bible while the 1611 edition of the KJV actually matched or followed the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible. Without those changes and revisions that were made to the 1611 edition of the KJV, there would be even more differences between the 1560 Geneva Bible and present editions of the KJV.

 

[Amy.G]

In a good number of places where the NKJV varies in its translating from the KJV it is very similar or the same as the 1560 Geneva Bible.

I love the NKJV. It's my favorite bar none, and this thread has made me appreciate it even more. :thumbsup:

 

[Logos1560]

The NKJ deserves some credit,but it apparently piggy-backed the Geneva. How about the Tyndale renderings of the same? Did it pretty much use the same wording as the Geneva? It is surprising that the Geneva (and the Tyndale) version made long before the KJV sounds much more contemporary and natural to us than the latter.

I do not know that the NKJV translators actually consulted or borrowed any renderings from the 1560 Geneva Bible. The Geneva Bible often agrees with Tyndale, but I have not checked all these places to see how many are the same.

In their efforts to translate the same underlying original language texts as used for the KJV and to update the language of the KJV, it is interesting to see the many places where the NKJV translators ended up agreeing with the earlier 1560 Geneva Bible.

 

[Logos1560]

In order to provide more evidence of the similar renderings in the 1560 Geneva Bible and the NKJV, here are some examples from the book of Acts

Acts 1:3 presented (Geneva, NKJV) shewed (KJV)
Acts 1:3 that he had suffered (Geneva) his passion (KJV) His suffering (NKJV)
Acts 1:4 but to wait (Geneva, NKJV) but wait (KJV)
Acts 1:19 their own language (Geneva, NKJV) their proper tongue (KJV)
Acts 1:20 charge (Geneva) bishopric (KJV) office (NKJV)
Acts 1:22 be made (Geneva) be ordained (KJV) become (NKJV)
Acts 2:8 language (Geneva, NKJV) tongue (KJV)
Acts 2:13 They are full (Geneva, NKJV) These men are full (KJV)
Acts 2:15 since it is (Geneva, NKJV) seeing it is (KJV)
Acts 2:34 sit at (Geneva, NKJV) sit thou on (KJV)
Acts 3:12 So when Peter (Geneva, NKJV) And when Peter (KJV)
Acts 3:12 or godliness (Geneva, NKJV) or holiness (KJV)
Acts 3:17 I know (Geneva, NKJV) I wot (KJV)
Acts 3:18 thus fulfilled (Geneva, NKJV) so fulfilled (KJV)
Acts 3:23 shall be (Geneva, NKJV) shall come to pass (KJV)
Acts 3:25 to Abraham (Geneva, NKJV) unto Abraham (KJV)
Acts 4:18 So they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Acts 4:28 to do (Geneva, NKJV) For to do (KJV)
Acts 5:16 were all healed (Geneva, NKJV) were healed every one (KJV)
Acts 5:21 all the elders (Geneva, NKJV) all the senate (KJV)
Acts 5:35 Men of Israel (Geneva, NKJV) Ye men of Israel (KJV)
Acts 5:41 So they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Acts 6:11 against Moses and God (Geneva, NKJV) against Moses and against God (KJV)
Acts 7:6 But God (Geneva, NKJV) And God (KJV)
Acts 7:11 famine (Geneva, NKJV) dearth (KJV)
Acts 7:17 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 7:20 acceptable unto God (Geneva) exceeding fair (KJV) well pleasing to God (NKJV)
Acts 7:25 that God (Geneva, NKJV) how that God (KJV)
Acts 7:38 congregation (Geneva, NKJV) church (KJV)
Acts 7:40 know not (Geneva) wot not (KJV) do not know (NKJV)
Acts 8:23 For I see (Geneva, NKJV) For I perceive (KJV)
Acts 8:27 to worship (Geneva, NKJV) for to worship (KJV)
Acts 9:8 from the ground (Geneva, NKJV) from the earth (KJV)
Acts 9:9 ate nor drank (Geneva, NKJV) did eat nor drink (KJV)
Acts 9:16 how many things (Geneva, NKJV) how great things (KJV)
Acts 9:22 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) very Christ (KJV)
Acts 9:38 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 10:2 household (Geneva, NKJV) house (KJV)
Acts 10:9 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 11:1 Now the (Geneva, NKJV) And the (KJV)
Acts 11:25 to seek (Geneva, NKJV) for to seek (KJV)
Acts 11:28 famine (Geneva, NKJV) dearth (KJV)
Acts 12:4 passover (Geneva, NKJV) Easter (KJV)
Acts 12:9 knew not (Geneva) wist not (KJV) did not know (KJV)
Acts 13:10 straight ways (Geneva, NKJV) right ways (KJV)
Acts 13:16 hearken (Geneva) guide audience (KJV) listen (KJV)
Acts 13:20 about four (Geneva, NKJV) about the space of four (KJV)
Acts 13:22 will do (Geneva, NKJV) shall fulfill (KJV)
Acts 13:35 wilt not (Geneva) shalt no (KJV) will not (NKJV)
Acts 13:36 with his fathers (Geneva, NKJV) unto his fathers (KJV)
Acts 14:14 But when (Geneva, NKJV) Which when (KJV)
Acts 14:15 O men (Geneva) Sirs (KJV) Men (NKJV)
Acts 14:23 in whom (Geneva, NKJV) on whom (KJV)
Acts 14:25 to Attalia (Geneva, NKJV) into Attalia (KJV)
Acts 14:26 commended (Geneva, NKJV) recommended (KJV)
Acts 15:3 sent (Geneva, NKJV) brought (KJV)
Acts 15:7 know that (Geneva, NKJV) know how that (KJV)
Acts 15:23 and the brethren (Geneva, NKJV) and brethren (KJV)
Acts 15:25 to us (Geneva, NKJV) unto us (KJV)
Acts 15:29 from things (Geneva, NKJV) from meats (KJV)
Acts 15:40 commended (Geneva, NKJV) recommended (KJV)
Acts 16:4 to keep (Geneva, NKJV) for to keep (KJV)
Acts 16:10 to preach (Geneva, NKJV) for to preach (KJV)
Acts 16:14 things which Paul spake (Geneva) things which were spoken of Paul (KJV)
things spoken by Paul (NKJV)
Acts 16:22 them to be beaten with rods (Geneva, NKJV) to beat them (KJV)
Acts 16:31 household (Geneva, NKJV) house (KJV)
Acts 16:34 household (Geneva, NKJV) house (KJV)
Acts 17:4 joined in company (Geneva) consorted (KJV) joined (NKJV)
Acts 17:6 But when they (Geneva, NKJV) And when they (KJV)
Acts 17:26 to dwell (Geneva, NKJV) for to dwell (KJV)
Acts 17:34 among whom (Geneva) among the which (KJV) among them (NKJV)
Acts 18:5 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Acts 18:28 the Christ (Geneva, NKJV) Christ (KJV)
Acts 19:28 Now when they (Geneva, NKJV) And when they (KJV)
Acts 19:33 to the people (Geneva, NKJV) unto the people (KJV)
Acts 20:1 to go (Geneva, NKJV) for to go (KJV)
Acts 20:9 overcome with sleep (Geneva) sunk down with sleep (KJV) overcome by sleep (NKJV)
Acts 20:10 But Paul (Geneva, NKJV) And Paul (KJV)
Acts 20:13 Then we (Geneva, NKJV) And we (KJV)
Acts 20:28 whereof (Geneva) over the which (KJV) among which (NKJV)
Acts 21:38 the Egyptian (Geneva, NKJV) that Egyptian (KJV)
Acts 22:2 he said (Geneva, NKJV) he saith (KJV)
Acts 22:6 as I journeyed (Geneva, NKJV) as I made my journey (KJV)
Acts 22:6 near (Geneva, NKJV) nigh (KJV)
Acts 22:8 to me (Geneva, NKJV) unto me (KJV)
Acts 22:17 Syrtes (Geneva) quicksands (KJV) Syrtis Sands (NKJV)
Acts 22:20 clothes (Geneva, NKJV) raiment (KJV)
Acts 22:21 Then he (Geneva) And he (KJV) Then He (NKJV)
Acts 22:27 to him (Geneva, NKJV) unto him (KJV)
Acts 22:30 On the next day (Geneva) On the morrow (KJV) The next day (NKJV)
Acts 23:3 to him (Geneva, NKJV) unto him (KJV)
Acts 23:9 Then there (Geneva, NKJV) And there (KJV)
Acts 23:14 oath (Geneva, NKJV) curse (KJV)
Acts 23:32 And the next day (Geneva) On the morrow (KJV) The next day (NKJV)
Acts 23:34 read it (Geneva, NKJV) read the letter (KJV)
Acts 24:1 came down (Geneva, NKJV) descended (KJV)
Acts 24:4 courtesy (Geneva, NKJV) clemency (KJV)
Acts 24:11 to worship (Geneva, NKJV) for to worship (KJV)
Acts 25:30 commanded his accusers (Geneva, NKJV) gave commandment to his accusers (KJV)
Acts 25:34 had read it (Geneva) had read the letter (KJV) had read it (NKJV)
Acts 26:28 to become (Geneva, NKJV) to be (KJV)
Acts 28:21 Then they (Geneva, NKJV) And they (KJV)
Acts 28:21 any evil (Geneva, NKJV) any harm (KJV)
Acts 28:24 some were persuaded (Geneva, NKJV) some believed (KJV)
Acts 28:27 should return (Geneva) should be converted (KJV) turn (NKJV)

 

[rsr]

Clayton Porter has compiled a verse-by-verse comparison of Wycliffe, Purvey, Tyndale, Geneva (1599) and KJV (1769), although the spelling has been modernized for the first four.

http://www.genevabible.org/files/Geneva_Bible/6_Version_Comparison.pdf