Food Stamps

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sorry. All government welfare programs are theft.

Then it would be safe to say you consider Income Tax theft also. Why dont you write a letter to the IRS & complain to them. Also didnt hear a word from you when I posted the 2 NYC Wall St Banker Executives wives collecting 220 Million from tax payers? How bout the 1 Billion we give to the Pakistani Govt for anti terrorism....was that thievery? Well it's a bad world son & I didn't make it. Just remember that there are some who are so on the balls of their cans that they are destitute & cant feed themselves & for lignite reasons. Would you take money out of their mouths? I can assure you from many experiences that they cant work & not because they dont want to. To these people, its embarrassing that they cant work. They really want to.

So in a perfect world the churches should help these people......but they are also strapped. So what do you suggest? I would prefer to manage through the force of facts & not through the force of opinion. Nobody has of yet answered my questions involving qualifying for FS. You want a meaningful discussion then lets discuss that. Until then, you come up short in my eyes.

Blessings

 

[Havensdad]

Sorry. All government welfare programs are theft.

That is an absurd statement. How is a person who is paying 10,000 dollars a year in taxes, stealing by taking back 2400 a year in food stamps? I guess you don't take tax deductions (especially "pre tax" deductions!), use public roadways, public parks, or school systems? You are simply illogical.

Also, I think your calculator is broken.

 

[Benjamin]

This sounds like more of Michelle Obama's "health nut" legislating in conservative disguise...

Listen, when it comes to food, everything comes back to calories. If something is chocked full of calories, but has no vitamins, you can actually live off it for quite some time. For instance, if you had nothing but potato chips, it would take months before your body began to fail due to lack of vitamins.

On the other hand, if all you had to eat was radishes, you would starve to death in a matter of a couple of weeks. Radishes are 1 calorie a piece. Thus a normal person would have to eat 2000 radishes per day to stay alive, which would cost around 400 bucks per day, versus 1 bag of 2 dollar potato chips that provide 2,000 calories per day.

Radishes= 1 dollar per calorie
Potato chips= .01 cent per calorie

So I say if we are going to ban anything for food stamp users, it needs to be all of the expensive "health food," that provides almost no real sustenance...radishes, broccoli, cucumbers, spinach, tomatoes, cauliflower, etc. Let people load up on "high calorie", low cost foods...potato chips, cokes, gravy, chocolate, etc.


Of course, such logic fails on liberals, who want to force everyone to eat tofu cubes, and no sugar, salt, or flavor.

I would say when it comes to food everything comes back to nutrition!

"Health nut" "expensive health food" "logic that fails on liberals" "it would take at least two months to die on potato chips" "radishes VS potato chips equals cost, therefore potato chips" is not even logic, it is rhetoric, don't have time to explain that right now.

Bottom line, your ideas of supplying the body its needs would end up costing those who are earners much more in medical bills than the food ever did.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

That is an absurd statement. How is a person who is paying 10,000 dollars a year in taxes, stealing by taking back 2400 a year in food stamps?

Actually, if they make enough to pay 10k in taxes, then they shouldn't be eligible for food stamps. So if they're getting food stamps, then they are probably defrauding the system.

 

[Havensdad]

Actually, if they make enough to pay 10k in taxes, then they shouldn't be eligible for food stamps. So if they're getting food stamps, then they are probably defrauding the system.

Thats not true. The bottom income bracket, which pays NO federal income taxes, pays between 45 and 55 percent in total taxes. Thus, if you are making 20K per year, about 10K goes to taxes.

Consider Texas taxes (which do not have state income taxes, even)...

8.2 percent sales tax
6.2 percent Social Security tax (which younger earners will never see!) DOUBLE this if you are self employed
1.45 percent Medicare DOUBLE this if you are self employed
40 cents per gallon gasoline tax
Property tax (County and City) average 1500 dollars per year for a 60K dollar (modest) home
Vehicle registration fees (basically making you "rent" your car from the government) my 2001 dodge pickup was just under a hundred bucks...we will go with that.
40 bucks (average) State inspection fees
.6 to 2 percent Electricity Tax
Transportation taxes on everything you buy in the store



All of this does not even count the compounding tax burden of goods and services. For instance, look at a snickers bar. The factorys/ farms where each of the ingredients are made, have taxes on employees, services, etc. Then the Snickers company has those same kinds of taxes when they put it together. Then they the stores have taxes. Also, the transportation from each of these facilities is taxed, including the employees. This ends up making a 5 cent snickers bar cost you a dollar at the register...plus the 8 percent sales tax (compounding on the earlier taxes)...

The government is robbing us blind. Take EVERY penny you can. At the same time, invest the money you save on getting people into office to fix this mess.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thats not true. The bottom income bracket, which pays NO federal income taxes, pays between 45 and 55 percent in total taxes. Thus, if you are making 20K per year, about 10K goes to taxes.

Consider Texas taxes (which do not have state income taxes, even)...

8.2 percent sales tax
6.2 percent Social Security tax (which younger earners will never see!) DOUBLE this if you are self employed
1.45 percent Medicare DOUBLE this if you are self employed
40 cents per gallon gasoline tax
Property tax (County and City) average 1500 dollars per year for a 60K dollar (modest) home
Vehicle registration fees (basically making you "rent" your car from the government) my 2001 dodge pickup was just under a hundred bucks...we will go with that.
40 bucks (average) State inspection fees
.6 to 2 percent Electricity Tax
Transportation taxes on everything you buy in the store



All of this does not even count the compounding tax burden of goods and services. For instance, look at a snickers bar. The factorys/ farms where each of the ingredients are made, have taxes on employees, services, etc. Then the Snickers company has those same kinds of taxes when they put it together. Then they the stores have taxes. Also, the transportation from each of these facilities is taxed, including the employees. This ends up making a 5 cent snickers bar cost you a dollar at the register...plus the 8 percent sales tax (compounding on the earlier taxes)...

The government is robbing us blind. Take EVERY penny you can. At the same time, invest the money you save on getting people into office to fix this mess.

You can get a home for 60K....really, where?

 

[sag38]

Probably not in New Jersey. But, there are places where you can get a very modest home for 60K.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Thats not true. The bottom income bracket, which pays NO federal income taxes...

Thank you.

8.2 percent sales tax

State, not federal.

6.2 percent Social Security tax

For benefits that they will already receive back.

1.45 percent Medicare DOUBLE this if you are self employed

For benefits that they will already receive back.

40 cents per gallon gasoline tax

State, not federal.

Property tax (County and City)

County and city, not federal.

Vehicle registration fees

Not a tax.

40 bucks (average) State inspection fees

Not a tax.

.6 to 2 percent Electricity Tax

State, not federal.

Transportation taxes on everything you buy in the store

...which are passed on to the consumer in the retail price, not through taxes.

 

[Aaron]

Then it would be safe to say you consider Income Tax theft also. Why dont you write a letter to the IRS & complain to them. Also didnt hear a word from you when I posted the 2 NYC Wall St Banker Executives wives collecting 220 Million from tax payers? How bout the 1 Billion we give to the Pakistani Govt for anti terrorism....was that thievery? Well it's a bad world son & I didn't make it. Just remember that there are some who are so on the balls of their cans that they are destitute & cant feed themselves & for lignite reasons. Would you take money out of their mouths? I can assure you from many experiences that they cant work & not because they dont want to. To these people, its embarrassing that they cant work. They really want to.

So in a perfect world the churches should help these people......but they are also strapped. So what do you suggest? I would prefer to manage through the force of facts & not through the force of opinion. Nobody has of yet answered my questions involving qualifying for FS. You want a meaningful discussion then lets discuss that. Until then, you come up short in my eyes.

Blessings

Taxes to support the proper role of civil government is not the issue. Is the proper role of civil government to take your property without your permission and redistribute it for the private use of individuals who did not work for it?

That's theft.

But even under the law, no one was commanded to give money to the poor. The poor were to be allowed to glean the fields after the harvesters. They had to work for their assitance, and the work entailed their picking up the grain and grinding it themselves to make their own bread.

And so under the Gospel, it is said that if a man will not work, neither shall he eat. And even in the cases where mercy if fitting, it's not commanded, as anyone who opposes the practice of paying tithes will attest.

Government is not the solution to poverty. It's the problem.

 

[Aaron]

That is an absurd statement. How is a person who is paying 10,000 dollars a year in taxes, stealing by taking back 2400 a year in food stamps? I guess you don't take tax deductions (especially "pre tax" deductions!), use public roadways, public parks, or school systems? You are simply illogical.

Also, I think your calculator is broken.

Welfare programs are theft. As said to EW&F, God established civil government, and He established it for a specific purpose. Anything not within the scope of that purpose makes civil government the transgressor.

 

[Salty]

Taxes to support the proper role of civil government is not the issue..

Exactly right :thumbsup:

Is the proper role of civil government to take your property ... and redistribute it for...individuals who did not work for it? That's theft..

No, it is not the role of govt - and yes it is leagalized theft.:tear:

But even under the law, no one was commanded to give money to the poor. The poor were to be allowed to glean the fields after the harvesters. They had to work for their assitance, and the work entailed their picking up the grain and grinding it themselves to make their own bread..

I actually have respect for those who go "bottling" (collect bottles for the 5 cent deposit)

And so under the Gospel, it is said that if a man will not work, neither shall he eat. ... .

II Thes 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat [/QUOTE]

Government is not the solution to poverty. It's the problem.

Sad but true

 

[Havensdad]

Welfare programs are theft. As said to EW&F, God established civil government, and He established it for a specific purpose. Anything not within the scope of that purpose makes civil government the transgressor.

If you are saying that the Government is a thief for taking more than what it should (income redistribution), then I wholeheartedly agree.

If you are saying people are stealing by using whatever legal recourse they have to get back some of that money, then I disagree.

 

[Havensdad]

Thank you.



State, not federal.

Foodstamps in Texas use not only federal funds, but local revenue as well.

For benefits that they will already receive back.

Preposterous. That money has been stolen by the U.S. government, and will never be returned to anyone who is under 40.

For benefits that they will already receive back.

Preposterous. That money has been stolen by the U.S. government, and will never be returned to anyone who is under 40.

State, not federal.

Foodstamps in Texas use not only federal funds, but local revenue as well.

County and city, not federal.

These taxes subsidize welfare income.

Not a tax.

Yes it is. Calling a tax a "fee" does not make it any less a tax. It has been a long standing argument of conservatives, like myself, that having fees associated with ownership is nothing more than an "ownership tax."

Not a tax.

Yes it is. Calling a tax a "fee" does not make it any less a tax. It has been a long standing argument of conservatives, like myself, that having fees associated with ownership is nothing more than an "ownership tax."

Tell you what, then. Under your logic, we will do away with all taxes, but have fees in the same amount charged to everyone, that do exactly the same thing. Then you should be happy, since it is no longer a "tax."

State, not federal.

Again, this goes to subsidize welfare programs, and is no less a "tax."

...which are passed on to the consumer in the retail price, not through taxes.

... and are therefore taxes on consumers. Putting a middle man in, changes nothing. It is still coming out of the pocket of struggling families.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Preposterous. That money has been stolen by the U.S. government, and will never be returned to anyone who is under 40.

Unfortunately, we don't know that. You can't steal money based on what you suspect might happen.

Preposterous. That money has been stolen by the U.S. government, and will never be returned to anyone who is under 40.

Unfortunately, we don't know that. You can't steal money based on what you suspect might happen.

Foodstamps in Texas use not only federal funds, but local revenue as well.

Fine. Let them use the local funds.

These taxes subsidize welfare income.

No, they go for things like schools, roads, police, etc.

Yes it is. Calling a tax a "fee" does not make it any less a tax.

OK. Clearly this is over your head, but the government taking your money is a tax. A company charging you more is not a tax.

It has been a long standing argument of conservatives, like myself...

LOL...excuse me while I clean the coffee off my keyboard.

Yes it is. Calling a tax a "fee" does not make it any less a tax.

Nor does calling the retail price of a product a tax make it a tax.

It has been a long standing argument of conservatives, like myself...

You're a conservative like Crabtownlittleboy is a rocket scientist.

Tell you what, then. Under what I'm going to falsely claim is your logic, we will do away with all taxes, but have fees in the same amount charged to everyone, that do exactly the same thing. Then you should be happy, since it is no longer a "tax."

I don't see how that would work, but OK.

... and are therefore taxes on consumers. Putting a middle man in, changes nothing. It is still coming out of the pocket of struggling families.

Private companies do not and cannot charge you taxes. The state can make them collect sales tax, but that's the state, not the company.

 

[billwald]

>Nor does calling the retail price of a product a tax make it a tax.

THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT OBSERVATION! When making a purchase one should only consider total price, not advertised price. Either the product or service is worth what you pay out or it isn't.

 

[TC]

OK, so now everyone on foodstamps has $300 Cigarette habit.:laugh: Is that what you think? Or is it their all drug addicts or alcoholics? shakes head.

WOW! Reading really is a lost art.

I have no problem helping those that really need it, but more needs to be done to root out the abusers - and I see plenty of abusers where I work.

IMO - food stamps should only be used at a grocery store for milk, eggs, meat, potatoes, rice, beans, fresh fruits and vegetables ect. No candy bars, no chips, no pop.

 

[Havensdad]

Unfortunately, we don't know that. You can't steal money based on what you suspect might happen.

Unfortunately, we DO know that. Funny that you call it "stealing" when it is our money. It is the government who is "stealing."

The government shouldn't keep stealing OUR money, based on the possibility of maybe giving us a small percentage of it back. Let us keep our money, and we can put it in our own 401k, and get ten times the yield. Don't steal our money, and claim you are putting it away, when actually you are just spending it.

Fine. Let them use the local funds.

Fine. Let the people keep their social security and medicaid money, as well as their self employment tax.

No, they go for things like schools, roads, police, etc.

No, they don't. Least not here. However, if you want to talk about schools, we can talk about those. That is just another welfare system. Quit robbing single, non-producing people's money, to pay for OTHER people's kids.

OK. Clearly this is over your head, but the government taking your money is a tax. A company charging you more is not a tax.

LOL. Apparently you have no idea what you are talking about. We are not talking about a company charging you something. We are talking about the government charging you yearly "fees" to own something. If I have to give the government a 100 dollars a year to put a sticker on MY vehicle, that I have already bought and paid taxes on, then I am renting my car from the government. That is what liberals are always trying to do...eliminate personal property.

LOL...excuse me while I clean the coffee off my keyboard.

I could only wish...

Nor does calling the retail price of a product a tax make it a tax.

If 80 percent of the price of a product is recouping taxes that were charged by the government? Not sure how you defend that position.

You're a conservative like Crabtownlittleboy is a rocket scientist.

Apparently you need a dictionary.

#1 I believe in reducing the size and scope of the Government, including vast reduction of the welfare system.

#2 I believe in vastly reducing taxes, particularly corporate taxes.

Both of those are the conservative position, last time I checked. Apparently you are a liberal with a bone to pick, who likes the high taxes that the government charges everyone...I don't.

I am a Tea party supporting, Newsmax reading, right wing crazy. And I think I should be able to keep MY stuff. If the government steals it...I am going to do everything possible to take it back.

Private companies do not and cannot charge you taxes. The state can make them collect sales tax, but that's the state, not the company.

When the government charges huge regulatory fees and taxes to companies, who do you think ULTIMATELY pays the price? We do. That is why reduction of corporate level taxes is so important.

Apparently you like high taxes, and the government stealing our stuff; or at least believe that we should just "quietly accept" it. I don't.

 

[targus]

I don't know if it is still happening but at one time food stamps were used to buy street drugs.

Dealers accepted the food stamps at a reduce rate and then resold them.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

I don't know if it is still happening but at one time food stamps were used to buy street drugs.

Dealers accepted the food stamps at a reduce rate and then resold them.

I've seen that happen before. Now they are given through an EBT card.

 

[rbell]

Since the church has done such a poor job of helping people, I would rather see the government do it.

Oh and yes Salty, I would gladly spend my money to help those who are in need. Just because I don't parade it around here like some do doesn't mean I don't help those in need that I can. I fear that some help others so they can brag about it to their peers.

This post shows two things:

1. Absolutely stunning ignorance of the job churches, and government, does. (Perhaps Robert should come to Alabama and see the job churches are doing in light of the tornado damage...never mind; it would upset his communist apple cart).

2. A resentful attitude toward those who actually do help other people. Probably a guilty conscience. I feel certain RS is a believer...and he's convicted because he's letting the government do the job that God wanted him to do.