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is Eternal Security An 'official" Baptist Doctrine of the faith?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
No. You will find a variety of general/Arminian baptists on the issue of loss of salvation. Some will say you can lose it through persistent sin, and others will say you can lose it only through apostasy.
Calvinists will say that no true Christian will apostasize.
Those like Charles Stanley say that even apostates keep their salvation.
Some fall in between these positions.
It's really a mixed bag.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
There isn't any "official" baptist doctrine of the faith on anything, because baptists are not organised as some sort of hierarchy with a world "Head Baptist" (though the bible does mention a headless Baptist :laugh: ).
I suppose it would be difficult to lay claim to the title "baptist" without beliving in baptism, and most baptist hold to the separation of church and state, but apart from that, it is a mixed bag, as Stefan said.
I suppose it would be difficult to lay claim to the title "baptist" without beliving in baptism, and most baptist hold to the separation of church and state, but apart from that, it is a mixed bag, as Stefan said.
Osage Bluestem
Member
Since the roots of the baptist tradition are in calvinism it should certainly be a position we take.
But sadly there are different branches in the baptist tradition. Some of which only agree that baptism should come after conversion.
But sadly there are different branches in the baptist tradition. Some of which only agree that baptism should come after conversion.
glfredrick
New Member
I agree with those above. Baptists are all over the map on this one -- some saying "once saved always saved," which is not particularly a scriptural sentiment (the Bible says "those who persevere until the end will be saved") while others bounce in and out of their salvation based on works, prayer, another trip to the altar for the Baptist version of confession, etc.
I've found it somewhat rare to find a Baptist church of any stripe that actually walks the Gospel in a manner consistent with Scripture -- freedom in grace, with a desire to serve out of loving relationship instead of coercion or an attempt to appease an angry God.
I've found it somewhat rare to find a Baptist church of any stripe that actually walks the Gospel in a manner consistent with Scripture -- freedom in grace, with a desire to serve out of loving relationship instead of coercion or an attempt to appease an angry God.
Just wonder what it means when "God will be faithful to complete that which He has started in you"
think that sometimes we cringe at term "once saved always saved" as if it gives us liceanse to live "like devil" and still keep near God...
Studying 1 John now, and the Apostle makes it quit clear that those truely saved in Christ will stay abiding in Him, as that is their New nature, that will love Him and strive to walk in ways of God, out of love towards jesus, NOT due to obligation/pay back, and that IF we sin, he will cleanse and forgive and restore us!
glfredrick
New Member
When I think about true, biblical, born-again-from-above salvation, I think of persons we read of in Scripture who had encounters with the living Lord. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, kings, prophets, and those who had similar encounters with Christ or the Holy Spirit post Pentecost.
I think of Isaiah's encounter with God...
Isa 6:1-10 (ESV) In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!" 4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for."
8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me." 9 And he said, "Go, and say to this people: "'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.' 10 Make the heart of this people dull, [and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
Why?
I believe that once we have an experience with God Himself in one form or another, we will never (NEVER) again wish to turn away. To whom else would we turn? Where else is salvation? Who else can gain us all that we gain as heirs and joint-heirs -- sons -- of God through Jesus Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
I think that in contrast to what I just wrote, there are a lot (a LOT) of people who have had some form of religious exercise, with a very human faith that comes from their belief in God, but they have never had the personal experience with God that results in a born-anew/new creation/Spirit-filled relationship with Almighty God. Those people are very zealous. They worship God with all that they have. They jump through every hoop and do every dance to insure that they are God's people, but unless or until God does the work in them that is His supernatural work alone, they are just religious folk with a good heart pointed in the right direction, but yet lost.
And, at the end of the day, the difference is not one of particular theology, but of particular action by God, which particular theology seems to best describe, though not exclusively.
I think of Isaiah's encounter with God...
Isa 6:1-10 (ESV) In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!" 4 And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth and said: "Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for."
8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me." 9 And he said, "Go, and say to this people: "'Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.' 10 Make the heart of this people dull, [and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
- All had some supernatural experience with God.
- All were changed radically to the core of their being by God as a result of that experience.
- None would turn away from God, even in their recorded sinful states.
Why?
I believe that once we have an experience with God Himself in one form or another, we will never (NEVER) again wish to turn away. To whom else would we turn? Where else is salvation? Who else can gain us all that we gain as heirs and joint-heirs -- sons -- of God through Jesus Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit.
I think that in contrast to what I just wrote, there are a lot (a LOT) of people who have had some form of religious exercise, with a very human faith that comes from their belief in God, but they have never had the personal experience with God that results in a born-anew/new creation/Spirit-filled relationship with Almighty God. Those people are very zealous. They worship God with all that they have. They jump through every hoop and do every dance to insure that they are God's people, but unless or until God does the work in them that is His supernatural work alone, they are just religious folk with a good heart pointed in the right direction, but yet lost.
And, at the end of the day, the difference is not one of particular theology, but of particular action by God, which particular theology seems to best describe, though not exclusively.
convicted1
Guest
Uh, no. I can take you to the FWBs around here, and they all, or at least a majority of them, state that you make a "choice" every day whether to serve the Lord or not. YUCK!! They call it, "make shipwreck of your faith", or something close to that. There are also a couple UB assocs(Old and New Zion) that believe the same way as the FWBs do concerning this matter. I, for one, believe that God is able to keep that which I have committed into His hands against that day!! What did I commit unto Him? My life!! Praise His sweet name!!
i am I AM's!!
Willis
Old Union Brother
New Member
glfredrick said
AMEN!!!!! Well said.
AMEN!!!!! Well said.
Historically Baptists were not Calvinistic at their inception. That came just a bit later. And as whole they were not later either. While we have swung like pendulum from one side to the other we have never, as a group, held to one position over another.
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We have never had an official position taken on this due to the fact that we acknowledge that all believers are 'free" to hold their respective viewpoints, as long as the held positions do not violate the "essentials" of the faith, outside of Christian orthodoxy!
I agree, but I am speaking as to general view of the collective baptist body.
I was responding to the statement that the "roots of baptist tradition" was Calvinistic, which historically speaking is inaccurate
From the website of the General Association of General Baptists:
Source: http://www.generalbaptist.com/#/identity/statements-of-faith
psalms109:31
Active Member
Some do have preconception of who Jesus is and isn't coming to Him to listen and learn. They will either find a way to place Jesus under that preconception or just walk away and really wasn't saved anyway. It was seed not planted in the heart, but on a carnal mind. It was easy snatched by the devil or choked out by trials and tribulations.To trust in God no matter what and not to lean on our own understanding. God isn't afraid of losing His glory from man as man some how by doing what is asked of Him some how can here is the end of the story and moving on to eternity.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[Psalm 8:6] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
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