Does God STILL use "Signs and Wonders" To Confirm Gospel Today?

[Jerome]

Perhaps Michael could be helpful and identify which book of the Bible he got this passage from?

Here is the entire commission; not just the parts preachers like to use:


Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.
And commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
They asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Go ye therefore, preach the gospel to every creature, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

 

[revmwc]

Perhaps Michael could be helpful and identify which book of the Bible he got this passage from?

It appears to be a weaving of several differnt passages of scripture, Some in Acts some in Matthew and some in the Epistles all turned into what looks like one continuous passage.

 

[revmwc]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Guess what these signs did follow those who believed in teh early church. Then God through Paul said they would cease when the complete was come, the complete bible has come and those gifts ceased. So one says they will follow them the other says they ceased all in God's ultimate plan for mankind and His church.

 

[Logos1]

The Age of Miracles Closed at the End of the Age

Tcassidy has made the case well.

Jesus said he would be with the apostle till the end of the age Mat. 28:20 and that of course referred to the end of the Old Covenant--destruction of the temple in 70 AD. We don't have any record of any body going around like the apostles doing signs, wonders, even raising the dead as they did since the time of the apostles. The age of miracles came to a close with them and no one has had such gifts since them.

That is not to say that God doesn't give us a miracle or two now and then--but no one since the Apostles just walks around all day doing signs and wonders like it is their 9 - 5 job every day to perform miracles all day long day after day.

 

[JesusFan]

Tcassidy has made the case well.

Jesus said he would be with the apostle till the end of the age Mat. 28:20 and that of course referred to the end of the Old Covenant--destruction of the temple in 70 AD. We don't have any record of any body going around like the apostles doing signs, wonders, even raising the dead as they did since the time of the apostles. The age of miracles came to a close with them and no one has had such gifts since them.

That is not to say that God doesn't give us a miracle or two now and then--but no one since the Apostles just walks around all day doing signs and wonders like it is their 9 - 5 job every day to perform miracles all day long day after day.

Actually, jesus said that he would be with us until end of the earth age, which would mean that His people will have Him with them in presense of the HS UNTIL His Second Coming, where at that time, we will have gloried bodies, Jesus will physicall/literally be here on earth, so no need at that time for His }presense: as he will be with us physical sense again!

None of that happened in 70 AD still a future time and event!

 

[Logos1]

When bibles disagree

Actually, jesus said that he would be with us until end of the earth age, which would mean that His people will have Him with them in presense of the HS UNTIL His Second Coming, where at that time, we will have gloried bodies, Jesus will physicall/literally be here on earth, so no need at that time for His }presense: as he will be with us physical sense again!

None of that happened in 70 AD still a future time and event!

Obviously we read from two different bibles. Yours may tell you he hasn't come back and it will be literal, but you can rest assured that mine is very specific on the point that it means the old covenant age, ended in 70 AD, and was not a physical coming.

 

[kyredneck]

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The sign gifts were temporary. They were needed when the Revelation of God was still incomplete or in part. When the complete (perfect) Revelation came (Bible was finished) the partial Revelation, in the form of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge, passed away.

Then Paul confirms that in verse 13 where he says that NOW (when Paul wrote 1 Corinthians) abide faith, hope, and love, THESE THREE. Note he did NOT say faith, hope, love, tongues, prophecy, and knowledge, these six.

When Paul wrote 1 Corinthians the gifts of tongues, prophecy, and knowledge were no longer being given to new converts, and as the old believers aged and died out, so did the gifts they were given. By the early 2nd century all such gifted believers were gone and with them the sign gifts as they were no longer needed to confirm the inscripturation of God's word.

Hebrews 2

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?​

"Was confirmed": Confirmation of "so great salvation" had been made by those who heard Him. Some of them bearing witness though the inspired Scripture after which no further confirmation was needed.​

Peter heard Him and though he has passed from the earthly scene he bears witness in the Scripture:

2 Peter 1
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.​

We have the very word of God whereunto we should take heed, we have no need of signs and wonders. We have a double witness - holy men of God and the Holy Ghost.​

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.​

The just shall live by faith
Not signs.​

HankD​

Tcassidy has made the case well.

Jesus said he would be with the apostle till the end of the age Mat. 28:20 and that of course referred to the end of the Old Covenant--destruction of the temple in 70 AD. We don't have any record of any body going around like the apostles doing signs, wonders, even raising the dead as they did since the time of the apostles. The age of miracles came to a close with them and no one has had such gifts since them.

That is not to say that God doesn't give us a miracle or two now and then--but no one since the Apostles just walks around all day doing signs and wonders like it is their 9 - 5 job every day to perform miracles all day long day after day.

.....Amen!.....

 

[JesusFan]

Obviously we read from two different bibles. Yours may tell you he hasn't come back and it will be literal, but you can rest assured that mine is very specific on the point that it means the old covenant age, ended in 70 AD, and was not a physical coming.

old covenant age actually ended 33 AD when the temple curtain was torn, Jesus died on Cross, and God raised Him 3 days later.. Once he reascended and resumed His palcein heaven, than the new Covenat was already established...

NO NEED for anything to happen in 70 AD Temple fell to Romans, isreal was under boot of Rome...

NOTHING else happened there in a "Biblical sense"

Hopefully, bOTH our Bibles have where we are to stay looking for the "Great and Glorious" physical appearance of the Saviour jesus, when we shall put on a glorified body, and to then we become as He now already is!

 

[Logos1]

old covenant age actually ended 33 AD when the temple curtain was torn, Jesus died on Cross, and God raised Him 3 days later.. Once he reascended and resumed His palcein heaven, than the new Covenat was already established...

NO NEED for anything to happen in 70 AD Temple fell to Romans, isreal was under boot of Rome...

NOTHING else happened there in a "Biblical sense"

Hopefully, bOTH our Bibles have where we are to stay looking for the "Great and Glorious" physical appearance of the Saviour jesus, when we shall put on a glorified body, and to then we become as He now already is!

In terms of the animal sacrifices, acts of the high priest, Jewish festivals having any meaning to God you are correct, but the Old Covenant had not completely passed away. If it had that would mean there was an "in between"
covenant between the new and the old and we know there is no such thing.

The two covenants overlapped during this period.

1 Corinthians 13:12--they are still seeing things imperfectly.

When the temple is destroyed the old comes to a complete end and the new comes into its own.

 

[JesusFan]

In terms of the animal sacrifices, acts of the high priest, Jewish festivals having any meaning to God you are correct, but the Old Covenant had not completely passed away. If it had that would mean there was an "in between"
covenant between the new and the old and we know there is no such thing.

The two covenants overlapped during this period.

1 Corinthians 13:12--they are still seeing things imperfectly.

When the temple is destroyed the old comes to a complete end and the new comes into its own.

The "new era" would have been officially inaugurated by God on day of Pentacost, when the Holy Spirit came down to earth and started out the Church age, Body of Christ on earth...

Again, NOTHING needed to be done by 70AD, as we were well into Church Age already...

Romans attacked and destroyed jewish temple, as fulfilling what Jesus foretold was to come...

Historical fact no more no less

 

[HankD]

The "new era" would have been officially inaugurated by God on day of Pentacost, when the Holy Spirit came down to earth and started out the Church age, Body of Christ on earth...

Again, NOTHING needed to be done by 70AD, as we were well into Church Age already...

Romans attacked and destroyed jewish temple, as fulfilling what Jesus foretold was to come...

Historical fact no more no less

Do you assume then that the NT canon was completed by AD70 and that the Second Coming had occured at that time?

Thanks
HankD

 

[Logos1]

The "new era" would have been officially inaugurated by God on day of Pentacost, when the Holy Spirit came down to earth and started out the Church age, Body of Christ on earth...

Again, NOTHING needed to be done by 70AD, as we were well into Church Age already...

Romans attacked and destroyed jewish temple, as fulfilling what Jesus foretold was to come...

Historical fact no more no less

I will certainly agree with part of what you said. Agreed that the church age was underway and Jesus certainly did predict the destruction of the Temple.

However look at the day of Pentecost and Peter’s sermon. He is telling them that they are in the last days (of the Old Covenant—again read it in their perspective not ours—to the Jewish audience it was the last days of their Old Covenant—the only relationship they had known with the Lord for generations) there is simply no way to get around the fact that the Old Covenant was still in its last days and not yet completely brought to an end. When Peter mentions the “day the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day” (Acts 2:20) he is referring to his coming in what would turn out to be the 70 AD destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.

The Babylon of the book of Revelation is Jerusalem in 70 AD and the description of its destruction in the great and terrible day of the Lord.

70AD is what we so often refer to as the Second Coming of Christ.

As they say—the Jews missed the first coming and the Christians missed the second coming.

 

[HankD]

As they say—the Jews missed the first coming and the Christians missed the second coming.

Who are "they"?

HankD

 

[JesusFan]

Do you assume then that the NT canon was completed by AD70 and that the Second Coming had occured at that time?

Thanks
HankD

Nope...

Canon was completed mid 90's when Apostle John wrote down the Revelation..

Second Coming still aFutire Event!

Just was trying to show that there was NOTHING spritually that happened when jewish temple fell to Rome, as the Churge Age was already underway, transistion to "New Covenant" already happened, so jesus DID NOT comre back 70 AD, and that the pretierist view, especially the Hyper one, not tenable by Scripture!

 

[JesusFan]

I will certainly agree with part of what you said. Agreed that the church age was underway and Jesus certainly did predict the destruction of the Temple.

However look at the day of Pentecost and Peter’s sermon. He is telling them that they are in the last days (of the Old Covenant—again read it in their perspective not ours—to the Jewish audience it was the last days of their Old Covenant—the only relationship they had known with the Lord for generations) there is simply no way to get around the fact that the Old Covenant was still in its last days and not yet completely brought to an end. When Peter mentions the “day the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day” (Acts 2:20) he is referring to his coming in what would turn out to be the 70 AD destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.

The Babylon of the book of Revelation is Jerusalem in 70 AD and the description of its destruction in the great and terrible day of the Lord.

70AD is what we so often refer to as the Second Coming of Christ.

As they say—the Jews missed the first coming and the Christians missed the second coming.

Well, IF John wrote the Revelation in AD 95, than?
When did History recordJesus p[lacing his foot back upon the earth then?
Or when did the Hi9storians record grave opeening up, jesus in the Air, all living saints raptured out of Roman Empire, or was it all done "in the dark/secret?"

 

[HankD]

Nope...

Canon was completed mid 90's when Apostle John wrote down the Revelation..

Second Coming still aFutire Event!

Just was trying to show that there was NOTHING spritually that happened when jewish temple fell to Rome, as the Churge Age was already underway, transistion to "New Covenant" already happened, so jesus DID NOT comre back 70 AD, and that the pretierist view, especially the Hyper one, not tenable by Scripture!

OK I misunderstood.

Thanks
HankD

 

[Logos1]

Well JesusFan

Dear JesusFan,

So when you get a reference to scripture in an answer you ignore it and simply declare your view as gospel without any bibical reference and want to settle it in such a flippant manner. Since you don't take your own post serious here--neither will I. I'll just ignore them and move on.

Yours in Christ till we meet on the other side,

Logos1

 

[Luke2427]

My question is why would he ever need to if the effectual work of regeneration is the only means that can and does "confirm" the gospel in anyone's mind?

There is more to regeneration than we'll ever know down here- perhpas more than we'll ever know fully throughout eternity.

We don't have to know all of what God uses to regenerate the spiritually dead heart- we just have to accept that God alone does it.

We simply know from the Word of God that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God so before he can receive ANYTHING of the Spirit of God he must be regenerated.

There it is.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Paul puts this in 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 ,
" Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good,"

 

[JesusFan]

Dear JesusFan,

So when you get a reference to scripture in an answer you ignore it and simply declare your view as gospel without any bibical reference and want to settle it in such a flippant manner. Since you don't take your own post serious here--neither will I. I'll just ignore them and move on.

Yours in Christ till we meet on the other side,

Logos1

Actually, the "Great and terrible day of the Lord" per the OT Prophets was to be the time when God would bring judgement upon Entire earth, ALL things that were oppossed to God would be toppled, that the Stone Daniel saw would overcome demolish all man made empires/govts etc.
that World and its systems would be judged by God, and that Messiah would usher in His "New Age" upon the earth... God kingdom on earth, with the King/Messiah ruling over it...

Isreal knew and help unto all those long years 2 promises from God...

Messiah would come, to redeem His people..

Would redeem from their Sins, and would establish His kingdom upon the earth..

First Coming as redeemer of Sins, Second Coming to be Judge and ruler on Earth!

Book of revelation shows us that Jesus is coming back to this Earth to rule over it, establishing Gods Kingdomover it literally sense, and that God will areise to fight on behalf of Isreal "On day of the Lord!"