Ergun Caner leaves Liberty for Arlington Baptist College

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Creep, Creep, Creep! His qualifications more appropriately for collecting garbage than teaching & administration. I would recommend NOT going to that college.

 

[Siberian]

And while Liberty Baptist Seminary officials found Caner made "factual statements that are self-contradictory," the chairman of the panel that investigated him says, "We never once found that he lied."

Unbelievable!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Unbelievable!

I will second that.....tad amount to insanity. Lets just open the door for any quack to come in and wreck our schools reputation (tarnished as it may already be). What a way to build credibility---NOT!

 

[Maestroh]

Controversy Follows Baptist Theologian to North Texas

If there is such a thing as a controversial, lightning rod Baptist minister, then one is headed to North Texas.

Ergun Caner is the former head of Jerry Falwell's Liberty Baptist Seminary in Lynchburg, Virginia, and his claims of having terrorist ties have clouded his credibility — and perhaps his future.

Claims of being so hated that he once had to dodge oranges being hurled from the audience is not what you might expect to hear from the Dean of Theology at Liberty Baptist Seminary.

But it's part of the Ergun Caner mystique and legend... of having been raised a radical Muslim in Turkey and an enemy of America.

"I hated you," Caner can be heard saying in a 2006 address to a student audience now broadcast on YouTube. "That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hays told you, my training center was in Beirut."

Caner is also on record saying he was trained to be a terrorist at the time his family moved from Turkey to America in 1978.

Once in the United States, Caner said he converted to Christianity, then rose to national prominence after the September 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.

That's when religion blogger Tom Rich of Jacksonville, Florida first heard Caner's message.

"He said that he was trained to do that was done on 11 September, which means in no uncertain terms ,'I was trained to be a terrorist, I was raised to be a terrorist,'" Rich said.

But last summer, Caner's story started to unravel when skeptics found evidence that despite his claims, the self-proclaimed young Jihadist actually moved to America from Sweden in 1969 — not from Turkey in 1978. Caner grew up looking and acting like most every other kid his age.

The discrepancies proved so damaging that Caner was demoted at Liberty Baptist and is now headed to North Texas to become vice president at Arlington Baptist College, home to 200 students and to perhaps a not-so-welcoming staff.

One faculty member told News 8: "I find it reprehensible that the leadership of the Arlington Baptist College would hire a man who is very clearly profiteering from the tragedy of September 11."

Back in Florida, Tom Rich says giving Caner credibility takes it away from the entire church.

"It really calls into question of the integrity of the organization that he represents," Rich said. "It makes it harder to spread the Gospel to people when they know that Southern Baptists are actually not holding this guy accountable."

Caner did not respond to our requests for an interview, but he is on the record saying he's only guilty of uttering "discrepancies" and making "pulpit mistakes."

Arlington Baptist President Dr. Dan Moody declined an on-camera interview, but told us by e-mail:

"Dr. Caner has our full confidence, and we are excited about the future of our school. We consider all the controversy to be in the past, and we are moving forward with full confidence."

And while Liberty Baptist Seminary officials found Caner made "factual statements that are self-contradictory," the chairman of the panel that investigated him says, "We never once found that he lied."

What seems to be at issue now is whether his detractors can now find it in themselves to forgive.

If he never lied then why in the world did they get rid of him?

 

[Rippon]

Controversy Follows Baptist Theologian to North Texas

If there is such a thing as a controversial, lightning rod Baptist minister, then one is headed to North Texas.

Ergun Caner is the former head of Jerry Falwell's Liberty Baptist Seminary in Lynchburg, Virginia, and his claims of having terrorist ties have clouded his credibility — and perhaps his future.

Claims of being so hated that he once had to dodge oranges being hurled from the audience is not what you might expect to hear from the Dean of Theology at Liberty Baptist Seminary.

But it's part of the Ergun Caner mystique and legend... of having been raised a radical Muslim in Turkey and an enemy of America.

"I hated you," Caner can be heard saying in a 2006 address to a student audience now broadcast on YouTube. "That may be harsh, but as Dr. Hays told you, my training center was in Beirut."

Caner is also on record saying he was trained to be a terrorist at the time his family moved from Turkey to America in 1978.

Once in the United States, Caner said he converted to Christianity, then rose to national prominence after the September 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.

That's when religion blogger Tom Rich of Jacksonville, Florida first heard Caner's message.

"He said that he was trained to do that was done on 11 September, which means in no uncertain terms ,'I was trained to be a terrorist, I was raised to be a terrorist,'" Rich said.

But last summer, Caner's story started to unravel when skeptics found evidence that despite his claims, the self-proclaimed young Jihadist actually moved to America from Sweden in 1969 — not from Turkey in 1978. Caner grew up looking and acting like most every other kid his age.

The discrepancies proved so damaging that Caner was demoted at Liberty Baptist and is now headed to North Texas to become vice president at Arlington Baptist College, home to 200 students and to perhaps a not-so-welcoming staff.

One faculty member told News 8: "I find it reprehensible that the leadership of the Arlington Baptist College would hire a man who is very clearly profiteering from the tragedy of September 11."

Back in Florida, Tom Rich says giving Caner credibility takes it away from the entire church.

"It really calls into question of the integrity of the organization that he represents," Rich said. "It makes it harder to spread the Gospel to people when they know that Southern Baptists are actually not holding this guy accountable."

Caner did not respond to our requests for an interview, but he is on the record saying he's only guilty of uttering "discrepancies" and making "pulpit mistakes."

A reminder for certain folks.

 

[JonC]

What bothered me most about the Caner issue wasn’t Ergun Caner. He was a good speaker, but perhaps more personality than substance. What bothered me was the attitude that some had about the issue. I understand his initial opponents (they were Muslim and he was attacking their faith), but there were also Christians who joined in attempting to destroy Caner rather than correct him. Caner may have been guilty of misrepresenting his background, but many of his brothers in Christ were guilty of misrepresenting their faith as evidenced by their words and actions. This is too often neglected when looking at the issue and some still can't get over it. Perhaps they need prayers instead of reminders.

 

[Havensdad]

What bothered me most about the Caner issue wasn’t Ergun Caner. He was a good speaker, but perhaps more personality than substance. What bothered me was the attitude that some had about the issue. I understand his initial opponents (they were Muslim and he was attacking their faith), but there were also Christians who joined in attempting to destroy Caner rather than correct him. Caner may have been guilty of misrepresenting his background, but many of his brothers in Christ were guilty of misrepresenting their faith as evidenced by their words and actions. This is too often neglected when looking at the issue and some still can't get over it. Perhaps they need prayers instead of reminders.

That is simply not true. No one attacked Caner, until he continued lying, dodging , and denying any wrong doing. He STILL denies any wrong doing. He STILL continues to fill pulpits and teach Seminarians, ALL without ever having so much as admitting wrong doing.


People are screaming, because the Church at large is NOT handling this in the proper manner. He should be disciplined, and removed from the community, until such time as he repents....

 

[JonC]

That is simply not true. No one attacked Caner, until he continued lying, dodging , and denying any wrong doing. He STILL denies any wrong doing. He STILL continues to fill pulpits and teach Seminarians, ALL without ever having so much as admitting wrong doing.


People are screaming, because the Church at large is NOT handling this in the proper manner. He should be disciplined, and removed from the community, until such time as he repents....

Whether warranted or not Caner was attacked at the get-go. People who are screaming are doing so because the "Church" is handling this in a manner that does not satisfy their desire. They should instead focus on the body of Christ and somehow "move foward" and work. They should realize that it is not a matter for the "Church" at large to handle, but his church to handle as they see fit. If you are a member of that congregation then you need to speak your mind within the confines of that church. If you are wanting the seminary that he belonged to at the time to handle it then contact them....oh wait....already too late for that. If it still bothers you - then do as Paul advised - praise God people are saved through the gospel he preaches and let it go.

My concern was more for these people you speak of than for Ergun Michael Caner.

 

[Revmitchell]

Whether warranted or not Caner was attacked at the get-go. People who are screaming are doing so because the "Church" is handling this in a manner that does not satisfy their desire. They should instead focus on the body of Christ and somehow "move foward" and work. They should realize that it is not a matter for the "Church" at large to handle, but his church to handle as they see fit. If you are a member of that congregation then you need to speak your mind within the confines of that church. If you are wanting the seminary that he belonged to at the time to handle it then contact them....oh wait....already too late for that. If it still bothers you - then do as Paul advised - praise God people are saved through the gospel he preaches and let it go.

My concern was more for these people you speak of than for Ergun Michael Caner.

They just cannot let it go. They just want him utterly destroyed and will not be satisfied until he is.

 

[mjohnson7]

So everyone that would like to see him repent, admit that he did indeed lie, and turn from that, wants him destroyed?? Really??

I don't want the man destroyed. I'd like to see him say, "ya know, things got away from me, I got caught up in the fame & notoriety, & I messed up.... Please forgive me." How is that wanting him destroyed???

I guess you'd think that because I'm glad Jack Schaap has been humiliated & will be spending a long time in prison, I'm an evil liberal or worse, Calvinist & want him destroyed!

Have some intellectual honesty!!

 

[Herald]

Whether warranted or not Caner was attacked at the get-go. People who are screaming are doing so because the "Church" is handling this in a manner that does not satisfy their desire. They should instead focus on the body of Christ and somehow "move foward" and work. They should realize that it is not a matter for the "Church" at large to handle, but his church to handle as they see fit. If you are a member of that congregation then you need to speak your mind within the confines of that church. If you are wanting the seminary that he belonged to at the time to handle it then contact them....oh wait....already too late for that. If it still bothers you - then do as Paul advised - praise God people are saved through the gospel he preaches and let it go.

My concern was more for these people you speak of than for Ergun Michael Caner.

Jon, I have more important things to deal with than worrying about Ergun Caner. I do believe he discredited himself through his public actions. If he simply took responsibility for his actions (confessed and repented) the matter would disappear from the national scene. It would then be a local church matter.

That is one of the problems with having a public audience. One of the reasons I will use Joel Osteen's name on occasion is because he has placed himself on the public stage. If you spread falsehood publicly you are going to be exposed publicly. That happened to Ergun Caner. Sure, other public figures like James White took him to task for his actions. Did James White go overboard? The answer is yes or no depending on who you ask. But take a look at some of the collateral damage Ergun Caner caused:

1. Liberty University and Seminary lost credibility (and student enrollment).
2. Individual Christians felt compelled to choose sides further weakening unity.
3. The secular media used the controversy as an excuse to blaspheme.

The fallout is very sad. #2 on my short list is, in my opinion, the most egregious. Norman Geisler is a man of excellent reputation. He is the most notable man to come to Ergun Caner's defense. How unfair of Ergun Caner to place Norman Geisler in that situation. Of course Norman Geisler is a grown man who is responsible for his own actions, but the Caner affair sullied his reputation among some Christians, and not all of them are Calvinists.

I do not want to see Ergun Caner remain a by-word in some segments of Christianity. So much can be accomplished through repentance. It should put an end to the continued criticism he and his supporters face. His local church should be the entity that should deal with any church discipline that is deemed appropriate. Whether he should continue in Christian education is a decision left to the educational institutions. If his critics continue in their attacks even after his repentance then they should be scrutinized as to their true motives.

 

[Havensdad]

Whether warranted or not Caner was attacked at the get-go. People who are screaming are doing so because the "Church" is handling this in a manner that does not satisfy their desire. They should instead focus on the body of Christ and somehow "move foward" and work. They should realize that it is not a matter for the "Church" at large to handle, but his church to handle as they see fit. If you are a member of that congregation then you need to speak your mind within the confines of that church. If you are wanting the seminary that he belonged to at the time to handle it then contact them....oh wait....already too late for that. If it still bothers you - then do as Paul advised - praise God people are saved through the gospel he preaches and let it go.

My concern was more for these people you speak of than for Ergun Michael Caner.

We are commanded by scripture to rebuke, and warn others of, false teachers. So until he publicly confesses and repents, or steps down from the pulpit, it would be an unbiblical and HATEFUL thing to do, to just "let it go." It would be like "forgiving" a bank robber, by leaving them alone with your church's weekly offering.

 

[Havensdad]

They just cannot let it go. They just want him utterly destroyed and will not be satisfied until he is.

No, we want him to repent, OR, if he will not do it, block him from decieving the rest of the church with lies. If he really wants to be left alone, he could simply step down from the pulpit, if he refuses to repent.

As long as he refuses to do either, it is our job, as shepherds, to continually warn others about him.

 

[JonC]

If this conversation was taking place in 2011 I may agree. If he is teaching a false doctrine, then that should be addressed by examining the doctrine. It just seems that he is not being “attacked” for his teachings, but because he will not admit he lied about his background. If he is guilty of all of the accusations, that doesn’t change my perspective. He was disciplined by the seminary (he was dismissed). Local church discipline and another’s personal repentance is not my business. I just don’t find it scripturally sound doctrine to continually attack someone in an attempt to elicit a forced confession. He knows the accusations. He knows how much is true and how much is false, what was done deliberately and what was done carelessly. His repentance is between him and God.

 

[Herald]

If this conversation was taking place in 2011 I may agree. If he is teaching a false doctrine, then that should be addressed by examining the doctrine. It just seems that he is not being “attacked” for his teachings, but because he will not admit he lied about his background. If he is guilty of all of the accusations, that doesn’t change my perspective. He was disciplined by the seminary (he was dismissed). Local church discipline and another’s personal repentance is not my business. I just don’t find it scripturally sound doctrine to continually attack someone in an attempt to elicit a forced confession. He knows the accusations. He knows how much is true and how much is false, what was done deliberately and what was done carelessly. His repentance is between him and God.

Well, I am not continuing to attack him. Like I said, I have more important things to attend to. I was pointing out that the fallout from his actions have tentacles. He and his supporters will have to deal with that.

 

[JonC]

Well, I am not continuing to attack him. Like I said, I have more important things to attend to. I was pointing out that the fallout from his actions have tentacles. He and his supporters will have to deal with that.

I agree with that 100%.