Preterism is a Better View of the Bible than Futurism for Someone Suffering

Your quotes brother Jesusfan

Jesusfan—don’t you find it odd how you always clamor for verses to support the Preterist position but don’t offer any verses to support your own position—I see this time and again in your posts and it baffles me. Well at any rate let me refer you to my answer to John of Japan two posts above for numerous verses in support of the Preterist position. I trust you have some legitimate verses to offer in support of your own position and don’t stoop to empty copying and pasting of irrelevant verses just to spit something out.

Proudly proclaiming our already realized Victory in Christ,

Logos1

 

For John of Japan

John you made my work a piece of cake here today. I would have been willing to call you the smartest futurist on the board and maybe you are—but what does that say of futurism—it is exposed as the empty shell which has to rely on twisting bible meanings to attempt to make its point. The slithering and twisting you have done here exposes futurism for the emptiness that it really is.

Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."

To which you replied “Oh, cool, so Caiaphas lived until 70? He must have been really, really old then. And he actually saw Christ coming? Wow! He must have written something about it. What did he and the others who saw Christ write about that? Someone wrote something, right?”

I’ll leave you to nitpick with the words of Christ as to whether he meant Caiaphas specifically or the group of priests assembled there collectively, but either way you are mocking and making light of the words of Christ—not my words. But I’ll leave it to you to mock and make light of where you choose to do so.

The fact that you twist the words of Christ and then try to credit them to me—illustrates how hallow and empty futurism really is. This is what lies at the heart of futurism. Thank you for such a blatant display of its distilled essence John.

In response to 1 Thessalonians 4:15
15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

You said “Oh, cool, so Paul lived to see the 2nd coming in 70 AD? What year did Paul die, after all? Oh. Wait. Wasn't it before 70 AD?”

We know it was before 70 AD and reading the verse we also see that Paul doesn’t say he specifically will live to see Christ return—he says “we who are alive” obviously meaning some will be alive without specific reference to who that will be.

Again we see the scripture twisting logic that is required of futurism.
And then you say I have to quit accusing others of perverting the word of God—LOL in view of your comments here I find that wonderfully amusing John.

Then in your newbie persona you said
“Here's my problem as a newbie. The destruction of the temple was literal, right? Every brick torn down, right? But the 2nd coming was not literal, right? So how do I tell the difference, as a newbie? How do I know what prophecies in those passages are literally fulfilled and what are figuratively or spiritually fulfilled? You must have some principle you follow. As a newbie, I need to know this.”

Christ himself answered you

Luke 17:20-21

The Coming of the Kingdom
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God will come, He answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with something observable; 21 no one will say, 'Look here!' or 'There!' For you see, the kingdom of God is among you."

Most newbie’s would be able to accept what Christ said at face value, but someone who had an opposing agenda to defend at all costs would probably mock it—hmm, sound like anybody we know John.

And finally you said—yet again complaining about the latitude I give you in this thread.
“Please. Give me freedom to disagree. A wise teacher guides his student, he doesn't force him.”

After a while all the whining about your freedom to disagree begins to sound like an excuse to hide behind when you can’t keep up with the points made in the thread.

Thank you John for making my day so easy here.

 

I think Tom answered you well and I’ll ask you one thing in return. Read

1 Thessalonians 4:15

15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

When Paul says “we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord”
Is that not a direct statement by Paul that some of those he is writing to will still be alive when Christ returns? Just how do you propose that means anything other than a first generation return of Christ.

Do propose to mean Paul was wrong and Christ didn’t come back in the life time of the first century believers thereby proving the bible not to be inerrant or do you suggest that those same people are still alive today 2,000 years later?

How many times has this been asked of futurists on the board and still there is silence on the matter. Prove that Paul was wrong and that Christ didn’t return—I say you can’t prove he didn't.

And while you are at it just ponder the consequences of that proof one way or the other. If futurists are wrong then the bible remains inerrant, but if preterists are wrong then the bible is not inerrant.

 

I bid you adieu John

Nothing personal John. Of course what you choose to take offense on is up to you. When I see disregard for scripture I have to label it as such.

As a preterist I've learned to over look such things as your not responding to the scripture I give you and just going oh cool and disregarding it--maybe when you get to be a preterist you will develop tougher skin too.

It's probably for the best though. I can't get you to work straight up with me on any verses indicating an expected first generation coming of Christ just weave and dodge and ignore and proclaim your own opinion when you get called on it say you are limited in your ability to respond.

I think you if you will allow your analytical powers free reign and quit worrying about creeds, traditions etc. you be amazed at how much sense preterism makes--I know that worked for me.

When I started reading the bible without dragging my preconceived baggage into the reading--preterism was the only view that made sense.

So long John. Maybe later.

Logos1

 

I’m going to put on my Yoda persona to answer Young John Skywalker

Oh John sometimes you are a side splitting laugh. God bless you for it, you old futurist you. I tell you it’s not personal and you refuse to accept it—it’s like you have to make it personal.

Viciousness you say--Pain, suffering, death I feel. Something terrible has happened. Young John Skywalker is in pain. Terrible pain.

Use the Force John. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.

Lost a temper, John has, how embarrassing.

Um, quick to anger you are. Um Preterist training you need. Only a fully trained Preterist Master can control his temper when the heat turned up it is on the BB.

I feel no anger John. Accustomed I am to insults, false comparisons, inaccurate quotes, and accusations of heresy, etc., etc. Tougher skin you need.

Only a fully trained Preterist can remain cool on the BB. Much to learn you still have.

Use the Force John. But beware of the dark side.

 

Praise Be, It's the Second Coming of Mel!

Mel, Mel, Mel……. My Man Mel—It’s so good to hear from you again you old futurist you. How have you been man?

I thought you had gone away mad for good and remained true to your promise. This is a Red Letter day for me to hear from you again Mel. You were always the most entertaining character ever to grace the Baptist Board.

No wonder Tom can’t make heads or tails out of that sentence—when I read it I laughed so hard I thought some one was going to have to take me out and shoot me.

I can’t tell if I meant what you meant to say that I meant or I meant what you meat to say that I meant isn’t what I meant or oh never mind you always operated out there in some spatial realm of biblical hermeneutics that left us mere mortals eating your space dust.

For old time sake I wish you would do some dating for us—I always envied the way you ciphered out those complex biblical codes with hair splitting accuracy.

While we are revisiting Our old posts to one another remember this blast from the past? Wasn’t it our last exchange on August 28th of last year when you said in post #330

That's It!
You can call it humor but I am not interested in humor. I have completely lost interest in further exchanges with you.
The 10-foot Pole that AsteriskTom placed between him and me now exists between you and me with no mutual respect.
Mel Miller

And I replied: Whether you are mad at me or not is your call.
Either way I'm not mad at you (nor any one else here).
Next week you will miss my flippant remarks when I start a new job and I won't be able to post as much.
I'll try to do a little in the evenings.
I won't expect any replies from you; however, I doubt you'll be able to resist.

Now I’m not the kind of guy to say I can predict the future with anything like your accuracy, but I knew you would miss me and be back sooner or later.

By golly it’s good to hear from you again Mel. I’ll say it again you are the most entertaining person on the board when you get cranked up I’d rather read your material than Joycelyn Elders’ most any day.


And of course what would an exchange with each other be without signing off with my favorite quote of yours (remember when you tried to get me banned from the board because I wouldn’t accept your sarcasm.) Oh man those were the days.

Here’s to us-two of the best buds on the BB.

“Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

Why thank you Mel!

 

Ok so I'm the money changers and you are Christ--did I get that right?

Oh Cool, another post for whining about your feelings. I should tell you to be a preterist for a while and get some real experience with your Christian brothers misunderstanding you and attacking you.

When you misrepresent my posts I take it as par for the course and I’m sure you won’t be the last to do such things. If I was going to let it make me mad and upset me I just wouldn't post.

You’re use to everybody patty you on the back and telling you how wonderful you are. Get a little real disagreement you don’t know how to rebut and it’s not fair.

So Young John Skywaker tell me how you really feel…don’t hold back give it to me both barrels, go nuclear, and just get all that nasty ol’ feeling out of your system and it will purify you and you’ll feel all better.

It’s ok. I have read that righteousness indignation (unlike the bad type of anger) doesn’t raise your blood pressure so you can go at it with abandon.

 

Living as in the Day

And getting back on topic of Preterism being more comforting to those suffering, distressed, or in need of care etc.. Preterism is more consistent with the notion of community missions, evangelism, care for the needy, and the general notion of bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to earth.

In futurism there is the ever present overhang of the Lord’s return, speculation about the antichrist, watching the news for the fulfillment of biblical prophecies, etc, but Preterism has put all that in the past.

With Preterism the return of Christ is in the past which allows focus on other matters that make the world a better place.

Indeed if you think the world is about to end there is no need to undertake projects with long-term schedules since you don’t think you will be around to finish the work. Preterism embodies the concept of a world without end that allows long-term projects to be started that may not even be completed in the same generation.

Kingdom work such as building facilities for the needy, church planting and planning, and providing training for missionaries are the focus here not speculation about the latest news involving Israel.

Getting past the second coming of Christ and realizing that we are living in the day as spoken of in Romans 13:13. The “in the day” is a reference to the period of time after Christ has returned. He is exhorting them to live Godly lives in their present time not wait for the return of Christ, but to start right then to live as they should live in the period after Christ has returned.

This is a reference to life in the period after Christ’s return.

Hence going about the Lord’s work makes Preterism a better view of eschatology for those who need comfort, assistance, and support from the church.