was man Saved By law Before The fall?

[JesusFan]

Haven't some said that God had a "covenant" of works with Mankind before the Fall, so IF there was no fall, God would use law keeping as means to credit us for rightousness?

 

[kyredneck]

.....if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been of the law. Gal 3:21

 

[sag38]

Haven't some said that God had a "covenant" of works with Mankind before the Fall, so IF there was no fall, God would use law keeping as means to credit us for righteousness?

No!!! Not one human, a part from Christ, has been able to keep the Law. Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness. It was that way for Adam after the fall and it is the same for us today.

 

[JesusFan]

.....if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been of the law. Gal 3:21

Don't reformed Teachers hold though that before the fall, God had a relationship with man based upon law/works?

 

[kyredneck]

Don't reformed Teachers hold though that before the fall, God had a relationship with man based upon law/works?

I don't know. Iconoclast would be a good one to answer that. He's up to par on CT.

 

[savedbymercy]

The purpose of the law was never to give life or salvation but to bring the elect to the knowledge of sin. Even with Adam, who I believe was an Elect, the Law given to him in the beginning was to bring him to Faith in Christ, the coming seed. Man has always been saved through Christ, for He was slain in the Divine Purpose from the foundation Rev 13:8.

 

[kyredneck]

The purpose of the law was never to give life or salvation but to bring the elect to the knowledge of sin. Even with Adam, who I believe was an Elect, the Law given to him in the beginning was to bring him to Faith in Christ, the coming seed. Man has always been saved through Christ, for He was slain in the Divine Purpose from the foundation Rev 13:8.

Agree! Amen!

 

[Iconoclast]

Haven't some said that God had a "covenant" of works with Mankind before the Fall, so IF there was no fall, God would use law keeping as means to credit us for rightousness?

JF....
Remember than in reality.....there is no "what if"...there is only what God has decreed in His perfect and immutable plan.

Now Adam in what has been described as original righteousness was sinless,yet untested.
Theologians have described the pre-fall condition as man living under a covenant of works.

7But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

7But(O) like Adam they(P) transgressed the covenant;
(Q) there they dealt faithlessly with me.

This verse in Hosea 6 is used to support this idea.

To really go into this study...theologically you study out the order of the decree
Supralapsarianism or infralapsarianism......

The Latin root supra means over, above, or before. The root infra means below, under, or after. Supralapsarianism is the position that the fall occurred (among other reasons) to facilitate God's purpose of election and reprobation of individuals, while infralapsarianism holds that, while the fall was planned, it was not planned in reference to who would be saved. Thus supralapsarians (in the Calvinist sense used here) believe that God chose which individuals to save before he decided to allow the race to fall, the fall serving as the means of realisation of the prior decision to send some individuals to hell and others to heaven, providing the grounds of condemnation in the reprobate and the need for redemption in the elect. In contrast, the infralapsarian holds that God planned the race to fall logically prior to the decision as to which individuals to save or damn out of a fallen race. As such, it is argued that to be saved, one must be subject to something from which one need be saved, and so the fall is logically prior to the decree of election.

Here is a link to this topic;
http://www.the-highway.com/Bavinck_predestination2.html


But to put in in simple terms.....

if there were no fall....man would not have sin to be saved from!


The Fall brings sin and death

There is no "IF"... there is only what is.

We are saved by law keeping Not our law keeping, we cannot do it....but by Jesus law keeping

Only we cannotkeep the law perfectly.

Jesus ....our sinless Lord and Saviour alone can keep the law of God perfectly, and this active obedience is exactly what is put to our account as righteousness. We are saved by the Holy obediance of Jesus ...the suffering Servant of the Lord. The Last Adam.

1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles

6I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

8I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

21The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Not anything we do, or anything in us...as fallen we can do or offer nothing unto God does anything to add to the perfect work of our Lord.
So looking back from the cross...the Last Adam does what no other man can do...sinlessly keep the law perfectly, on behalf of those who he is the mediator of the New covenant for. We are saved by His works put to our account.

Before the fall...there was no salvation necessary.After the fall there is only one salvation possible.....Our Great High Priest, Holy harmless and undefiled, living a perfectly sinless life in full obedience to the Father's will, bleeding and dying for sinners ,given to Him before the world was. He actually lives and dies for His people. He then saves each and everyone of them. No more and no less.

He accomplishs redemption[not just making it possible], buying them back [redemption} by the BLOOD of the Everlasting Covenant.

You can see why rev13:8 is a key verse and you can "see" the necessity of Particular Redemption, if you understand that this priestly work , has eternally been planned and certain in God's mind and now made known to the church;

9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

JF... if you understand Union with Christ...you will understand the L.........and with it the correct understanding of 1jn 2:2

 

[JesusFan]

JF....
Remember than in reality.....there is no "what if"...there is only what God has decreed in His perfect and immutable plan.

Now Adam in what has been described as original righteousness was sinless,yet untested.
Theologians have described the pre-fall condition as man living under a covenant of works.



This verse in Hosea 6 is used to support this idea.

To really go into this study...theologically you study out the order of the decree
Supralapsarianism or infralapsarianism......



Here is a link to this topic;
http://www.the-highway.com/Bavinck_predestination2.html


But to put in in simple terms.....

if there were no fall....man would not have sin to be saved from!


The Fall brings sin and death

There is no "IF"... there is only what is.

We are saved by law keeping Not our law keeping, we cannot do it....but by Jesus law keeping

Only we cannotkeep the law perfectly.

Jesus ....our sinless Lord and Saviour alone can keep the law of God perfectly, and this active obedience is exactly what is put to our account as righteousness. We are saved by the Holy obediance of Jesus ...the suffering Servant of the Lord. The Last Adam.







Not anything we do, or anything in us...as fallen we can do or offer nothing unto God does anything to add to the perfect work of our Lord.
So looking back from the cross...the Last Adam does what no other man can do...sinlessly keep the law perfectly, on behalf of those who he is the mediator of the New covenant for. We are saved by His works put to our account.

Before the fall...there was no salvation necessary.After the fall there is only one salvation possible.....Our Great High Priest, Holy harmless and undefiled, living a perfectly sinless life in full obedience to the Father's will, bleeding and dying for sinners ,given to Him before the world was. He actually lives and dies for His people. He then saves each and everyone of them. No more and no less.

He accomplishs redemption[not just making it possible], buying them back [redemption} by the BLOOD of the Everlasting Covenant.

So the Supra version is that God had the ross already predestined/foreordained before the fall, as He directly caused the fall in order to facilitate Him using the Christ to save out His elected peoples
The Fall/Cross directly caused by God
Ifra version is that the Cross was foreseen by God, God foreknew the fall and Cross, but allowed fall to happened, than the Cross plan went into effect to save his elected out peoples?

fall allowed/Cross directly caused?