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fallacies of "non-cals"
- Thread starter Luke2427
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WOULD you be so kind as to describe/define what regeneration in your understanding does to the person who has been regenerated.
Would you state they are now:
1. made alive
2. reconciled to God
3. sanctified toward God
4. some state - indwelt by the Holy Spirit
5. made righteous before God
please add to or take away, or modify the list given as to what happens when one is regenerated.
Again, wanting to understand what you believe.
All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace.
They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
Is that clear enough?
This really doesn't answer my question.
However the next part sort-of answers it.
So from the above I presume you agree that regeneration includes the following as having happened prior to salvation:
1. New heart and New spirit - (new creation - old things gone all are new)
...1a. Justified - something had to be done to remove and thus replace the old.
2. Sanctified
3. Indwelling of the Holy Spirit
4. Reconciled unto God
Does that accurately depict what you state happens at the regeneration?
Regeneration is a process. It begins with God alone giving life to the dead spirit of a man without any cooperation whatsoever on the part of the sinner.
It is concluded with the eternal salvation of the person, although it's effects drive the process of sanctification throughout the believers life.
So is that a yes?
I'll tell you what. You start a thread along the lines we are discussing and I will talk with you about the order of regeneration and faith until I am banned from here.
This subject does not match the op.
I cannot fully agree with either John Calvin nor Jacobus Arminius. But since I dont profess to be a 4 or 5 point Calvie, that means I'm forcefully thrown into the Arminian camp. Ok thats fine then...............
Sorry. You are a nice guy Tater,but it is what it is. How many times have I heard/read "I'm neither an Arminian nor a Calvinist." That pretty much nails their Arminianism right there.
It's funny. For those who claim not to identify with either camp they realize that being an Arminian is not cool since it was condemned in the past as heretical. So that creates a stigma. But,on the other hand they "know" that Calvinism is just plain wrong too. What'll they do? Ah ha.They'll call themselves biblicists! Yeah,that's the ticket!
These folks just can't win.
Proof that historical arminianism was considered heretical? Also, since you are claiming we are all arminian...are you claiming we are all heretics?
Tater....correct me if Im wrong but were you not at one time IFB? If so, did they allow Calvinistic teaching?
You are either not following this conversation or did not read what I said.
You also took what I said out of context. If you are going to quote me quote the entire sentence and don't be foolish to quote half a sentence and change the meaning of it. That is what fools do.
Luther was a fool to remain in the Catholic Church and try to reform it from within. That was my statement. The RCC was never going to reform. It was not going to change its doctrine and teach justification by faith alone. In fact it firmed up on its belief, called into action the Council of Trent, and decreed that any who would hold such beliefs as Luther held would be anathema. To this day those "anathemas" have never been rescinded. Was he a fool to try to reform the RCC from within? Yes, absolutely. You would be a fool to enter the RCC as a priest today and try and do the same thing. Do you think that you can go, be a member of the RCC and turn the entire organization into a Protestant one. Only a fool would think that they can do that. I make no apologies for using the word "fool."
Did he have a choice?
I don't believe with the majority here. I believe that the Spirit led him to Jerusalem. Others warned him that he would suffer if he went. Paul was not afraid to suffer, and he told them so. He went as led by the Spirit. The Spirit told others that he would suffer, not that he should not go. Some did not want to go, perhaps out of their own selfish desires to keep Paul because they enjoyed his teaching.
Paul was no fool. Whatever would lead you to that conclusion?
However on one occasion he did say that he was a fool for Christ's sake.
I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. (2 Corinthians 11:16-17)
Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. (2 Corinthians 11:23)
I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. (2 Corinthians 12:11)
4 And having found the disciples, we tarried there seven days: and these said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not set foot in Jerusalem.
11 And coming to us, and taking Paul`s girdle, he bound his own feet and hands, and said, Thus saith the Holy Spirit, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
12 And when we heard these things, both we and they of that place besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
13 Then Paul answered, What do ye, weeping and breaking my heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 21
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Does he say why?
So? Paul was not afraid to suffer. The Spirit told him he would suffer. Paul already knew he would suffer. What about you? Are you afraid to suffer for your Lord's sake?
A selfish request. Paul was going to suffer and they knew it. Its like saying your son is going to go fight for your country in Afghanistan, and your begging him to go AWOL instead because you don't want him to suffer. How selfish!
Paul had the right attitude.
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