Do Baptists "See" Calvinism in same way as Reformed believers?

[JesusFan]

Seems that a lot of the time, people are addressing concerns about Calvinism that seem to be more from a reformed perspective...

Are there differences in how reformed and baptist 'tend" to see this?

 

[Iconoclast]

Seems that a lot of the time, people are addressing concerns about Calvinism that seem to be more from a reformed perspective...

Are there differences in how reformed and baptist 'tend" to see this?

No...not if you are a Reformed Baptist.

 

[Luke2427]

No...not if you are a Reformed Baptist.

As the vast majority of Southern Baptists were in the origin of the SBC.

Read Tom Nettles' book "By His Grace and For His Glory."

As the majority of Baptists were when the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith was written.

The general baptists have always been in the minority compared to the particular baptists in this country until the the 1920's or so.

Thank God it seems the tide is slowly turning back.

 

[JesusFan]

No...not if you are a Reformed Baptist.

Someone recommeneded to read theology by AH Strong do you know how he would consider this?

 

[David Lamb]

I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps it's another of those instances where the same word or phrase is interpreted differently depending which side of the Atlantic you are. Here, in the context you used the words, "Reformed" means the same as "Calvinist". And "Calvinist" doesn't mean agreeing with absolutely everything Calvin ever spoke or wrote, so (as Iconoclast mentioned), it is possible to be a Reformed Baptist - a Calvinistic baptist, if you prefer. (Calvin, of cours, believed in baptising babies, whereas baptists, including reformed baptists, baptise believers.)

In the UK, at least, if a church has a name like "ABC Reformed Baptist Church", or "XYZ Grace Baptist Church", you can be fairly certain that its statement of faith will be Calvinistic.

I hope that helps you, and maybe you could help me by explaing what you meant in your OP. (Not a criticism, just a request ) Thanks!

I found this website which includes three articles on the subject: "What is a Reformed Baptist Church?" I haven't read every word, but they seem to give a good overview.

 

[JesusFan]

I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps it's another of those instances where the same word or phrase is interpreted differently depending which side of the Atlantic you are. Here, in the context you used the words, "Reformed" means the same as "Calvinist". And "Calvinist" doesn't mean agreeing with absolutely everything Calvin ever spoke or wrote, so (as Iconoclast mentioned), it is possible to be a Reformed Baptist - a Calvinistic baptist, if you prefer. (Calvin, of cours, believed in baptising babies, whereas baptists, including reformed baptists, baptise believers.)

In the UK, at least, if a church has a name like "ABC Reformed Baptist Church", or "XYZ Grace Baptist Church", you can be fairly certain that its statement of faith will be Calvinistic.

I hope that helps you, and maybe you could help me by explaing what you meant in your OP. (Not a criticism, just a request ) Thanks!

I found this website which includes three articles on the subject: "What is a Reformed Baptist Church?" I haven't read every word, but they seem to give a good overview.

thanks!
Think just noticing that in the discussions here on BB...
that those of "reformed' belief tend to most strictly adhere to calvinist theology, in the sense limited atonmemnt, 5 point TULIP regenration preceeding faith, sometimes long time delay
More "high camp"
While baptists tend to see more like either limited/unlimited, faith/regeration same time in oprocess, usually not as "strict" calvinist

More Moderate it appears

Would it be as simple as differences between reformed baptists and those not reformed?

 

[Tom Butler]

thanks!
Think just noticing that in the discussions here on BB...
that those of "reformed' belief tend to most strictly adhere to calvinist theology, in the sense limited atonmemnt, 5 point TULIP regenration preceeding faith, sometimes long time delay
More "high camp"
While baptists tend to see more like either limited/unlimited, faith/regeration same time in oprocess, usually not as "strict" calvinist

More Moderate it appears

Would it be as simple as differences between reformed baptists and those not reformed?

I can speak only for myself. I don't know any Baptist Calvinists who are not 5-pointers or hold a "moderate" view. The ones I know hold that regeneration precedes faith, but might differ over any delay.

In fact, those whom we would describe as theological moderates (or liberals) are rarely Calvinists.

I am also comfortable with "Reformed," as are my Calvinist acquaintances.

There will be some disagreement over double-predestination.

 

[Jerome]

The ones I know hold that regeneration precedes faith

Are your crowd "Founders" types?

Southern Baptist Founders Journal contributing editor Timothy George, Theology of the Reformers (Nashville: Broadman, 1988) p. 225:

This being placed into Christ (insitio in Christo) occurs in regeneration which, Calvin was careful to point out, follows from faith as its result

 

[JesusFan]

I can speak only for myself. I don't know any Baptist Calvinists who are not 5-pointers or hold a "moderate" view. The ones I know hold that regeneration precedes faith, but might differ over any delay.

In fact, those whom we would describe as theological moderates (or liberals) are rarely Calvinists.

I am also comfortable with "Reformed," as are my Calvinist acquaintances.

There will be some disagreement over double-predestination.

Seems though that there are those who see themselveas as being Calvinist, not Arminians, who hold to to

Atonement of unlimited in its nature
Faith/Regeneration are at same time

Aren't they different than those holding to limited nature of atonment and to regeneration some time before faith?

 

[Jerome]

Insight into actual early Southern Baptist belief:

From a book by SBC Founder James B. Taylor's (the first Secretary of the Foreign Mission Board):

the view now generally adopted by the Baptists [is] that the atonement is general in its nature

 

[Jerome]

The actual Founders of the SBC would be appalled at being referred to as Reformed Baptists.

 

[JesusFan]

Insight into actual early Southern Baptist belief:

From a book by SBC Founder James B. Taylor's (the first Secretary of the Foreign Mission Board):

Unlimited Atonement?

 

[Jerome]

Edward Hiscox identified mid-nineteenth century American Baptists as being

what in England is called "moderate Calvinism." Though diversities of personal opinion in many cases may incline to either extreme, the "general atonement" view is for the most part adopted, while the "particular atonement" doctrine is held by not a few.

SBC Founder Jeremiah Bell Jeter:

Baptists generally hold to what may be termed, for the sake of distinction, "moderate Calvinism."

 

[Tom Butler]

Are your crowd "Founders" types?

Southern Baptist Founders Journal contributing editor Timothy George, Theology of the Reformers (Nashville: Broadman, 1988) p. 225:

This being placed into Christ (insitio in Christo) occurs in regeneration which, Calvin was careful to point out, follows from faith as its result

That's why I said I speak only for myself.

Seems though that there are those who see themselveas as being Calvinist, not Arminians, who hold to to

Atonement of unlimited in its nature
Faith/Regeneration are at same time

Aren't they different than those holding to limited nature of atonment and to regeneration some time before faith?

One variation is that Jesus' death on the cross was sufficient for all but efficient only for the elect.

I know one person who holds that view.

And the question of time lapse between regeneration and salvation is not a major dividing point. I can take either side and give you a good argument.

Maybe I've led a sheltered life.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Edward Hiscox identified mid-nineteenth century American Baptists as being



SBC Founder Jeremiah Bell Jeter:

Ugggg,,, And please define to me what the heck defines a "Moderate Calvinist" ! This is startin to get loonie toones.

Lets take a look at the baseline for Calvinistic beliefs .... it is that Calvinism insists that salvation is by grace from beginning to end. In quoting James M. Boyce in "The Doctrines of Grace".... Salvation is a gift, in every sense of the word--God's gift for undeserving sinners who cannot be redeemed apart from God's saving grace. The gift is given to those whom God chooses to give it; and although it is offered to everyone, it is not given to everyone. When God does choose to grant this gift, however, he effectively places it in the hands of his child; and once it is received , it can never be lost, stolen, or damaged. ..... these gracious principles were defined and defended in The Canons of the Synod of Dort. (out of this you get your Tulip). All professing Calvinist should believe these points at the very least.

 

[JesusFan]

That's why I said I speak only for myself.



One variation is that Jesus' death on the cross was sufficient for all but efficient only for the elect.

I know one person who holds that view.

And the question of time lapse between regeneration and salvation is not a major dividing point. I can take either side and give you a good argument.

Maybe I've led a sheltered life.

I also tend to hold to the view that God did love all and Jesus paid sin debt for all a propiation for whole World, its just that he requires one to place faith in Jesus to actually get saved from that event, and we cannot do that UNLESS God elects us personally to receive Jesus Christ!

 

[JesusFan]

I can speak only for myself. I don't know any Baptist Calvinists who are not 5-pointers or hold a "moderate" view. The ones I know hold that regeneration precedes faith, but might differ over any delay.

In fact, those whom we would describe as theological moderates (or liberals) are rarely Calvinists.

I am also comfortable with "Reformed," as are my Calvinist acquaintances.

There will be some disagreement over double-predestination.

Think many of the "moderate" camp would see themselves as being 'baptist" cals, not reformed, as do not hold to "High" view of calvinism, like limited atonement of Cross, determination, regeneration delays to salvation experience, faith considered to be a 'work: etc!

Think Millard Erickson a prominent Moderate calvinist...