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IF You believe One can Reject Christ AFTER salvation: Once and Done?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Just curious, do you ever read the Bible before you ask a question?IF you hold that you can still seperate yourself from God by willfully rejecting jesus EVEN fater really being saved...
is it reject once, than you are done?
More than once come back to God by faith or what?
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If it were possible to recant your faith in Christ, it would be impossible to renew it again.
You can reject him after you are saved. But once you are saved you cannot become unsaved.IF you hold that you can still seperate yourself from God by willfully rejecting jesus EVEN fater really being saved...
is it reject once, than you are done?
More than once come back to God by faith or what?
Just curious, do you ever read the Bible before you ask a question?
Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Well...
MANY would hold that the Author is NOT describing the affairs of those who were genuine believers in jesus, and than turned away...
But were those who would be good 'church members/active in Church/taught/gave money/sang songs" yer NEVER knew Jesus in a saving fashion!
and by the way, DO read the Bible, and several other Theological books also by the way!
If it were possible to recant your faith in Christ, it would be impossible to renew it again.
again, just seems "odd" that one can undo the work and will of God by your own "free will?"
I do not believe that anyone who is truly born again will ever reject his personal faith in Christ after he is saved. I do believe that someone may reject "the faith." The difference between rejecting "the faith" rather than personal faith is one of standing vs. state. In other words, someone may choose to leave the church, reject organized religion, and a holy sanctified life; however, he still maintains his trust in Jesus as his Savior. Obviously, such an individual is living outside God's intended purpose for his life.You can reject him after you are saved. But once you are saved you cannot become unsaved.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I disagree. Heb 6:4-6 is not speaking of a believer. The term "fall away" means unbelief. These are persons who never believed, and were never saved. This is shown in verses 7-9
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Paul compares these persons to earth, much like Jesus compared hearers to the ground in the parable of the sower. He speaks of these persons being like earth that has been rained upon and has soaked up the rain, but has brought forth only thorns and briers, and whose end is to be burned. And in verse 9 he tells his audience he is persuaded better things of them, and things that accompany "salvation". So these other persons are not saved.
What this shows is that God shows a great deal of grace to the unregenerate, and that they can know and understand it quite well. They can be enlightened, which means they can understand the gospel, they can be partakers of the Holy Spirit and brought under great conviction to the point of repentance, and yet turn away in unbelief and never trust Christ.
The only other alternative is to believe these verses teach a believer can fall away in unbelief and be lost. Either way, this passage refutes TULIP. If an unregenerate person can be enlightened and brought to the point of repentance, but turn away, then Total Depravity and Irresistable Grace is false. If a believer can fall away in unbelief, then Perseverance of the Saints is false.
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I disagree. Heb 6:4-6 is not speaking of a believer. The term "fall away" means unbelief. These are persons who never believed, and were never saved. This is shown in verses 7-9
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Paul compares these persons to earth, much like Jesus compared hearers to the ground in the parable of the sower. He speaks of these persons being like earth that has been rained upon and has soaked up the rain, but has brought forth only thorns and briers, and whose end is to be burned. And in verse 9 he tells his audience he is persuaded better things of them, and things that accompany "salvation". So these other persons are not saved.
What this shows is that God shows a great deal of grace to the unregenerate, and that they can know and understand it quite well. They can be enlightened, which means they can understand the gospel, they can be partakers of the Holy Spirit and brought under great conviction to the point of repentance, and yet turn away in unbelief and never trust Christ.
The only other alternative is to believe these verses teach a believer can fall away in unbelief and be lost. Either way, this passage refutes TULIP. If an unregenerate person can be enlightened and brought to the point of repentance, but turn away, then Total Depravity and Irresistable Grace is false. If a believer can fall away in unbelief, then Perseverance of the Saints is false.
Last edited by a moderator:
Just for clarification, all that stuff that Jesusfan put in quotes supposedly by me, is not mine.
My mistake, I did not go back to re edit it, as thought had put all of my reply outside of the quote box!
Hello gloopey1.I do not believe that anyone who is truly born again will ever reject his personal faith in Christ after he is saved. I do believe that someone may reject "the faith." The difference between rejecting "the faith" rather than personal faith is one of standing vs. state. In other words, someone may choose to leave the church, reject organized religion, and a holy sanctified life; however, he still maintains his trust in Jesus as his Savior. Obviously, such an individual is living outside God's intended purpose for his life.
I fully agree we cannot reject the free gift that we received. Upon acceptance we are sealed in. But it is possible to fall away, but not out of. We can reject the straight and narrow road. I really doubt that any of us have not been diverted at least once, i.e. turned aside perhaps just for a moment. We may not have done a terrible sin as we count sin, but sis ns sin. Did we gossip, just that once? We should know that immediately, and stop it. Did we judge someone, even in our mind? We should notice such things and stop it. Smoking is not a sin if we don't over do it, but lying is. Drinking is not a sin unless we over do it; just as eating anything we want is not a sin, as long as we don't over do it. So I believe everyone does at times reject what He tells us is wrong.
I'm not saying you are wrong for it would be wrong for you to stop going to church. But to me it would not be wrong if I never entered into any church. I have this view for not going to church is not a sin. Some church down here is not my salvation. I understand what you are saying, but I cannot go along with that view. The Church is the Body of Christ. We stand in Jesus Christ revealing our state, which is our marriage this very moment to Him. I couldn't get rid of Him even if I wanted to. I am connoted to the Head of the Church.
I go to church to be with others that think half way of what I think. But organized religion today is not what it used to be, and we can see that in the early churches. Many Organizations (charities) have taken over what Organized Religions should be doing, taking care of widows (and widowers), the sick, afflicted, etc. There are scant few in any denomination that now plow most of their monies into taking care of those in need of physical things with loving kindness. I give outside my church to Organizations that cloth, feed, medicine, recuperating, disabled and other necessary things. I don't believe we should be trying to take care of the world, but our own, that is our community, city, State, Nation. That means I can't give as much money to my local church. I would give more, but I believe the wood, brick and fancy trappings will go up in smoke at our Rewards ceremony.
Some would say I am not a good Baptist, and probably not, but I am a Christian that believes the Apostle to the Gentile. That is why I understand what the Body of Christ means to we Christians. The churches of old, real old, took care of their own people, and now it is Business First, and then any that may be left over. Usually not much for they must try to pay off that outlandish loan looming over their head. I see Organized Religions, and not really a local assembly, but a local church doing what every other church is doing.
Please look to whom Paul is writing. It is the Kingdom people, and many of them had received the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, and some with other gifts. They could eat anything without getting sick; some could actually heal people, and do other wonders. This was the Kingdom at Hand preview. This is what Israel turned down, so that Kingdom did not come. That is why we have Damascus Road.Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Those saints were not in the Body of Christ, for they are promised that Kingdom, and they will inherit the earth. Those of the Circumcision, and their proselytes were not sealed in as are we in the Body of Christ. These HAD TO BE WATER BAPTIZED, REPENTING FOR THE REMISSION OF THEIR SINS.
Some wish to be connected to Israel, and I believe they will. I choose not to be, for I am in the Body of Christ, and I can't, and no one else has the power to undo me from the Bridegroom. I am One with Him, and will be like Him, and with Him for all eternity. He is not into the divorce business.
convicted1
Guest
IF you hold that you can still seperate yourself from God by willfully rejecting jesus EVEN fater really being saved...
is it reject once, than you are done?
More than once come back to God by faith or what?
John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
2 Tim. 1: 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
You can't become "unsaved", after you have been saved!! OSAS, I say!!
Agree with OSAS. But how can you believe this with the references you give above? Jesus came for His sheep, and no dogs. Paul writes to the Hebrew, just as the Book is named, and proselytes can tag along. This Hebrew reference shows those of the Kingdom gospel at hand, can become lost.John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Heb. 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
2 Tim. 1: 12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
You can't become "unsaved", after you have been saved!! OSAS, I say!!
The only way to prove OSAS saved is when we listen to what Christ Jesus from heaven revealed to our Apostle.