The Church’s most important Doctrine

[stilllearning]

By far, the Church’s most important Doctrine is "Inspiration/Preservation", simply because every other Doctrine is in danger, if we can be moved away from Inspiration/Preservation.

Therefore, why are so many people here so surprised, that my main thrust on this site, is to defend Inspiration/Preservation!?!
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At every turn, my arguments are attacked and labeled “KJBO lies”, when I keep making it clear, that for me the issue isn’t the KJB, but “GOD’S WORD”!

Am I the only one that sees the slippery slope, that we are on, when we start QUESTIONING, the validity of GOD’S WORD?

 

[jbh28]

By far, the Church’s most important Doctrine is "Inspiration/Preservation", simply because every other Doctrine is in danger, if we can be moved away from Inspiration/Preservation.

Therefore, why are so many people here so surprised, that my main thrust on this site, is to defend Inspiration/Preservation!?!
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At every turn, my arguments are attacked and labeled “KJBO lies”, when I keep making it clear, that for me the issue isn’t the KJB, but “GOD’S WORD”!

Am I the only one that sees the slippery slope, that we are on, when we start QUESTIONING, the validity of GOD’S WORD?

Nobody here denies that the Bible is inspired nor does anyone deny that it is preserved.

 

[annsni]

Yes, God has inspired the original manuscripts and He has preserved His Word through the ages even in not always perfect translations. God uses sinful man to spread the Gospel as well. So why is it so far-fetched to think that even a less than absolutely perfect translation can do what God wants?

It's been shown that there are errors in the KJV. So what do we do with those if our argument is that there can be NO errors at all because God has provided us with double inspiration? Remember that even a printing error is an error.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

IMO, the most important doctrine of the Church is "salvation by grace thru faith alone."

IMO, preservation is actually a historical fact more than it is a doctrine.

 

[Salty]

I am troubled by the title of the thread
" The Church’s most important Doctrine"

That would be like saying, what is the most important part of a car. Most would say the engine, but what about the gas tank, what about the tires, how about the Battery. Each component is important-
Likewise every doctrine in the Bible is important.

 

[stilllearning]

IMO, the most important doctrine of the Church is "salvation by grace thru faith alone."

IMO, preservation is actually a historical fact more than it is a doctrine.

Hi Jkdbuck76

How can any of us “know for sure”, that “salvation....is by grace thru faith alone”?
Without inspiration and preservation........we can’t!
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This is what makes inspiration/preservation, the Bible’s most important Doctrine!

 

[Jkdbuck76]

Hi Jkdbuck76

How can any of us “know for sure”, that “salvation....is by grace thru faith alone”?
Without inspiration and preservation........we can’t!
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This is what makes inspiration/preservation, the Bible’s most important Doctrine!

Which came first? The Church or the Bible? And I mean NT....

 

[Van]

I do not object to saying a doctrine or some doctrines are more important than others. Foundations are important because only when you build on a solid foundation, does you work have merit. Our foundation is Christ. But why do we say Christ is our foundation? Oh, that is right, because God's word says Christ is our foundation. But why should we rely on God's word? Because it is true. How do we know it is inspired? Because it says so and it is true. So for me, the most importand doctrines of my faith is that God's Word is true and what it says about God is true. These two are exalted above everything else. Why? God and God's Word are true and He says so!! So there!

 

[Van]

It has been God's special care to providentially preserve the Bible whole and unblemished through every age. [Deu 31:11; Psa 12:5-7; 111:7-8; 119:152; Isa 40:8; 59:21; Act 15:21; Rom 3:1-4; Eph 2:20]

1) Deu 31:11 says we will read this Law when "all Israel" is gathered, at the end of the age. The assumption is that "this Law" being read circa 1500 BC will be "supernaturally" preserved without alternation over that whole period. But another assumption could be God's word is distorted and restored time and again during the period, but is restored at the end of the age. So no actual support for the supposed doctrine in this verse.

2) Psalm 12:5-7 again provides no actual support for the doctrine. God's word, from the lips of the Prophet, are pure, like refined silver, and thus uncorrupted with error. But this refers to the original message and may not refer to transmission without error to the end of the age. Verse seven, referring God preserving "him" refers to "needy" set in safety in verse 5 and does not refer to verse six concerning God's Word. The actual idea of the passage is God's word says God will preserve the needy and so we can rely on that promise.

3) Psalm 111:7-8 says God's Word is truth and justice, because it is the work of His hands, and His precepts (or requirements for us to follow) are sure and trustworthy. This does not address transmission, but it sure says God's Word is trustworthy so if what we have we believe is God's Word, we sure should believe it is trustworthy. Verse 8 continues with the idea that the original precepts are upheld forever and thus never changed by God subsequently altering them, so if what we have is close to the original, it is still valid today.

4) Psalm 119:152 simply repeats the idea that what God originally gave us, they are founded, i.e. will not be changed, forever. Again, to read transmission into this verse is inviting, but rests on an assumption. So again, no actual support for the doctrine.

5) Isaiah 40:8 proclaims the Word of God stands forever. But again, this may be referring to the original message, it is certainly not referring to a message that has been distorted over time.

6) Isaiah 59:21 certainly lends itself to interpretation. In my opinion, it is talking about the New Covenant, and us being indwelt with the Holy Spirit forever, and so the Word of God in us will be there forever. The "offspring" could be thought of as physical children, but again, I think spiritual children, those we have helped bring to the Lord, are in view as they too will be indwelt forever. So by my light, even this verse does not actually support preservation without corruption, but only that God's Word will be sufficient for the purpose of the gospel, which is the power of God for salvation.

7) Acts 15:21 again sayings what Moses wrote (and perhaps compiled - the Torah) was preserved over about 1500 years such that what was being read in the first century was "Moses!" But this simply attests to the method used being sufficient for the purpose, and does not attest to perfect transmission.

8) Yes, God's hand in preserving God's Word can certainly be seen in Romans 3:1-4 for God "entrusted the Jews" with the "oracles of God." And we know they, the Jews entrusted, did an adequate job based on Acts 15:21. So it is sound doctrine that God preserved adequately His Word, but to go further is to take scripture beyond what it actually says, in my opinion.

9) Ephesians 2:21 carries on with the idea of Isaiah 59:21 where we as living stones are indwelt with the Holy Spirit of Truth, and together we form the temple of the Lord.
So again, this certainly addresses the adequacy of the gospel over time but does not address perfect transmission.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Am I the only one that sees the slippery slope, that we are on, when we start QUESTIONING, the validity of GOD’S WORD?

I'd be interested in knowing the names of the people on the Baptist Board who question the validity of God's Word. I've been here for 10 years and I haven't seen anyone do that except for an occasional non-believer.

 

[annsni]

I LOVE God's Word. I live by it. I breathe it. I want to know it more. God speaks to me through it. I've seen lives changed by it. God's Word is the ONLY written work that is still changing lives even thousands of years after it was written. Praise the Lord!! :godisgood:

 

[InTheLight]

Therefore, why are so many people here so surprised, that my main thrust on this site, is to defend Inspiration/Preservation!?!

You seem to be more intent on defending the KJV as being the only true Word of God.

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Am I the only one that sees the slippery slope, that we are on, when we start QUESTIONING, the validity of GOD’S WORD?

So why do you question the validity of the NIV, the NASB, the ESV, etc.??

 

[stilllearning]

So why do you question the validity of the NIV, the NASB, the ESV, etc.??

I don't ever remember doing this.

Could you please post the link.

 

[annsni]

I don't ever remember doing this.

Could you please post the link.

It is clear(to me), that Satan has always been attacking God’s Word;
It is also clear(to me), that the CT is a result of this attack;

Absolutely!
Providing the version, was translated from time tested manuscripts.

This one was closed so I can't put the quote from it but the thread is here. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=71503

Satan’s plan for the Church’s new attitude about the Bible, is to destroy souls.

This morning I ran into a flock of JW’s and as we talked we compared John 1:1 and I explained how their religion had added that “a” in that verse, to deceive them.

They proceeded to inform me how the King James Bible had made a mistake in John 1:1, by not adding the “a”; and they also said that they know what they were talking about, because they had studied the original Greek!!!
They continued by pointing out several other verses, where the King James had made mistakes. Etc.
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After this encounter, I realized that a little over 100 years ago, poor lost souls like this, wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on, because there was a time, that our English Bible was universally seen as “God’s Word”.

At that time, we could have pointed out that “This is the Bible and it is the truth”;
But the Church’s new attitude about the Bible, has given these false churches a leg to stand on, because “most Christians” would agree with them, that the Bible has mistakes.
In fact, as I have read here many times, “No translation is without errors!”
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Now I am not too worried about all of this, because the Lord is in control, and this lukewarmness toward Him and His Word, has been prophesied to come to pass.

I am just Glad, that I have not been infected by it.....as yet.....

Good morning Van, and thank you for this clear and civil response.
(It is much appreciated.)

I think this is the first time that I have spoken to you, so if it is, welcome to the BB.
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Lets talk about “the fly in the buttermilk”.

You pointed out, how there are differing opinion as to which is the “best version”(best copies of the original autographs), that we should be using.

Well....I use two methods, to determine which one is best;
1) The one that has been tested by time: (The TR has been time tested and for “hundreds” of years). And God’s people(who had the Holy Spirit in them), fully trusted the TR to be “God’s preserved” Word.
(The only exception being a few unbelieving eggheads.)

2) God’s Warning about the last days.......
2Timothy 3:12-14
V.12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
V.13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
V.14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

This warning should not be ignored or overlooked, when determining what or who should be trusted today.
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Also, you said......

In response to this difficulty, many bible students look at several translations, such as the NASB, the ESV, the HCSB, the NKJV and the NIV to come to an understanding ....

This is unwise for these students, because for the most part, every one of these versions, come from the same source(the CT), so all they are getting are different degrees of error.


I have a lot more to say, in response to you post, but.........I really have to go right now.

See you later

Just a few examples. The last one is quite glaring.

 

[stilllearning]

Again I ask(because I have been careful)........
Show me a link, where I have criticized any English Bible version, “by name”!

I am only “openly” critical of he CT!

 

[JesusFan]

Again I ask(because I have been careful)........
Show me a link, where I have criticized any English Bible version, “by name”!

I am only “openly” critical of he CT!

And critical of all modern versions based upon it, such as NIV/ESV/NAB etc....

 

[stilllearning]

And critical of all modern versions based upon it, such as NIV/ESV/NAB etc....

I don’t think I have ever said that!

There is a rule here, against being openly critical of any Bible version!

But this thread, has nothing to do with any “Bible version”;
So please don’t hijack it!

 

[InTheLight]

IMO, the most important doctrine of the Church is "salvation by grace thru faith alone."

IMO, preservation is actually a historical fact more than it is a doctrine.

Amen to that.

 

[annsni]

Again I ask(because I have been careful)........
Show me a link, where I have criticized any English Bible version, “by name”!

I am only “openly” critical of he CT!

This is unwise for these students, because for the most part, every one of these versions, come from the same source(the CT), so all they are getting are different degrees of error.

There you go.

 

[MB]

By far, the Church’s most important Doctrine is "Inspiration/Preservation", simply because every other Doctrine is in danger, if we can be moved away from Inspiration/Preservation.

Therefore, why are so many people here so surprised, that my main thrust on this site, is to defend Inspiration/Preservation!?!

The gospel is the most important doctrine nothing but the gospel leads a man to Christ.

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At every turn, my arguments are attacked and labeled “KJBO lies”, when I keep making it clear, that for me the issue isn’t the KJB, but “GOD’S WORD”!

Am I the only one that sees the slippery slope, that we are on, when we start QUESTIONING, the validity of GOD’S WORD?

I use the KJV there are no lies in it. It agrees more with all the Greek NT's than any other version. Though it agrees more still with the Majority text.
It's the apparatus used for the translation of the newer versions that isn't correct. They have taken what they knew was corrupted and used it any way. There so called apparatus is used to determine what is corrupt. I don't care what you use but if you do not have the original manuscripts
it's impossible to know what is true and what isn't. Not to mention if the newer versions are so great why are there so many of them and each one different. Not even one of the newer versions is a translation but all of them are paraphrases. Not one single bible amoung the whole lot. They can boast all they want to but the truth is the truth.

You are not alone there are many of us who recognize the truth of the KJB
MB