psalms109:31
Active Member
:thumbsup: My reason is for the OP in order to come to Christ with assurance of Him not saying to us He never knew us. I desire all to have assurance of their salvation who have trusted in Jesus
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
"I never knew you." So how do I get Him to know me?
- Thread starter Jkdbuck76
- Start date
:thumbsup: My reason is for the OP in order to come to Christ with assurance of Him not saying to us He never knew us. I desire all to have assurance of their salvation who have trusted in Jesus
preacher4truth
Active Member
You just combined the 2 judgments once again.
Answer the questions friend. I know to do so will be difficult because it will help admit that what I said is a correct assessment.
You're allowed to think.
When others called Him Lord Lord, what were they proclaiming? That He is their master. Same thing believers do, yet the first are not saved.
Are there some that say they've trusted and placed their faith in Christ that are not truly His? Yes or no will suffice.
And if yes, we both know where they will be in the judgment.
Not all in church bro, who profess faith in Him, are truly His.
psalms109:31
Active Member
God loves
God loves a cheerful giver. There is a big difference than just calling Him Lord and doing things for Him thinking will earn a greater status or doing to receive. I did this for you, I did that for you, Instead of you did this through me and it belongs to you not me. That we do it because we love Him, not because we have to.
God loves a cheerful giver. There is a big difference than just calling Him Lord and doing things for Him thinking will earn a greater status or doing to receive. I did this for you, I did that for you, Instead of you did this through me and it belongs to you not me. That we do it because we love Him, not because we have to.
Johathan01
New Member
Absolutely true!
ALL who place their faith & trust in Christ will be saved. The fact that they claimed their own works before God reveals their use of Lord is merely as a title, not in the sense of Lordship in their lives.
Reading your own thoughts into the text is not an example of higher thinking. It is an example of wrong thinking. Where did I combine the judgments? You seem to be grasping at personal attacks instead of proving your assertion through the text we are discussing.
Here are a few passages to consider while thinking about whether or not they were proclaiming trust in Christ:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (Joh 6:47)
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. (Rom 5:9-11)
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:13)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)
preacher4truth
Active Member
"ALL who place their faith & trust in Christ will be saved." Are you not reading my posts or just not thinking them through? If you did not understand my answer & the related passages, then NO, there is no chance that a person who truly claims Jesus as Saviour(not just lip service) will not be truly His.
preacher4truth
Active Member
One more time.
Are there those who claim Jesus as Savior (without the word "truly" that you've added to limit it to stricly mean only true believers) that are not truly His? Of course all those that are truly saved are truly saved. You're making it redunbdant by adding the word truly. No one here is arguing whether or not the truly saved are truly saved. See how you have to twist it and add words so as only to be able to arrive at one conclusion.
You're attempting to make it sound like I'm saying those that are truly His are not. Nice try. That's not what I've implied, nor asked.
Spare me with the old cliche "did you not read what I've said" nonsense so many on here use. It's emotional immature nonsense.
Let's get back to what I really asked with out you qualifying it to come out to what you want it to mean by adding words:
Do people say they are saved by Jesus, that are not truly saved nor His?
Yes or no.
Last edited by a moderator:
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
If I truly know Him, then He will truly know me. It's all about relationship.
quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
One More Time,
Stick with the context of the passage in question. It is not referring to those who outwardly claim Christ while still in the flesh. It is speaking of a specific place & time when they will stand before God. I am answering the question within the context of the text. Of course there are those who claim Christ but do not have an understanding of the Gospel, but that is not the point of the verse.
How about this, no one will claim Christ when standing before God & be condemned. These persons did not claim Christ, they claimed their own works. How hard is that to understand? I guess it's pretty hard when you're set on injecting your own interpretation into the text.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (Joh 5:24)
preacher4truth
Active Member
Pay attention: Some people this side of heaven proclaim Him as Savior. Yet they're lost. As a matter of fact, at a recent revival, we had several church members come forward, the pastor was shocked, they claimed to trust only in Him, and all the verses you quote, but were lost. If I believed what they said and claimed, as you did, they would have sat there still in a lost state. I don't buy that all that claim it are saved. End result? True born-again persons as a result.
He knows who His are. These persons will have with them those that did claim Him here as Savior. My interjection is not interpretation, it's called practical application. There's a difference, and no need to turn it into an emotional personal attack, and go on your rant that that leads to false doctrine, a feeble attempt to implicate me. I'm certain your pastor at Geyer does the same thing; applies Scripture. Why? Preachers have freedom to not only interpret, but also to apply Scriptures. Applying practicle truth is not interpretation. By these simply calling Christ Lord, they are trying to claim they know Him as Master. Same thing they are doing (guess what?) right now on earth.
Yep. Not everyone who claims that verse is born again.
Thus, they will hear "I never knew you."
I noticed you passed on commenting on twisting my question into trying to say that I denied those that are truly saved are truly saved. There's no need for that. Let's keep it honest, OK?
Not all that say they are saved, or claim Jesus as Savior are truly His.
Here's the bottom line:
You: (in essence) "Everyone that is truly born again is born again." Ya think?
Me: "Not everyone that claims Christ as Savior alone is truly saved." Fact.
Application? They will stand at the wrong side of judgment. He never knew them. Thus I can apply this passage to such, and not be in violation of truth.
Last edited by a moderator:
Think main point is though that there are SOME in the end who will not be saved who are deluded into thinking that they were...
Either believed in a Jesus not of the Bible, trusted in other things like baptism/communion/membership etc to save them, or who mentally agreed with the facts, yet were never willing/able to commit both hearts and minds to Christ!
preacher4truth
Active Member
All of these things play into it. Such as how was the Gospel presented? Which Gospel? Who was the Jesus of that Gospel? The real Jesus of the Bible? What about the Joel Osteen Jesus and Gospel? They'll tell you that He is their Savior. Does that make it so? What of the Word-Faith Jesus, that Copeland says is a failure? How about just a Jesus that is not the Biblical Jesus, but one who came to give you a majority role in the world, based on your ethnicity. They''ll tell you they trust in "him" alone too.
It get's complex. The Jesus I know from Scripture came to save His people from their sins.
Not everyone that claims Him as Savior is truly born-again.
Those who claimed it and were not will be right along with those in Matthew 7.
Michael is correct, look at the scripture in context.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
How obvious does it have to be? These folks were boasting of their works. They directly ask have they not "done many wonderful works?". It couldn't be more obvious.
Works are no assurance of salvation. A person must come to Christ and trust him only to save them. A person who has done this can know and have assurance of salvation.
Faith is not some mysterious, magical thing. You can know when you trust someone for a certainty. If your neighbor asked to borrow your car and you gave them the keys and they drive off, did you trust them? YES.
In the analogy I earlier gave of the firemen shouting for you to jump from the skyscraper promising to catch you, if you jumped did you trust them? Of course! There is no doubt about it whatsoever. You can know when you have believed, you can know when you truly trusted.
I know I will get an argument from the Calvinists, but Jesus himself shows what trusting or believeing is, when he gave up the ghost on the cross.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Jesus did not have to die on the cross, he is God. He could have easily come down and killed those who attempted to crucify him. He WILLINGLY died on the cross, he GAVE UP the ghost. He entrusted (commended) his spirit into his Father's hands, depending and relying on the Father to raise him from the dead. This is trust, this is believeing. It is a ceasing of all effort to save one's self and placing your salvation in Jesus's hands, depending and relying on him only to save you as he trusted his Father to raise him from the dead.
It is like jumping off the building. Once you do that you are helpless and completely dependent on those firemen to catch you as they promised.
You can know if you have trusted Jesus. You can come to him in your heart and simply ask him to save you, and depend on him to fulfill his promise.
John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
Asking Jesus to save you is trusting, it is believeing. It is placing the matter in his hands and depending on him alone to save you. Jesus does not need our works, he does not need our help at all. He is fully able to save all those who come to him and trust their souls to him.
Those persons in Matthew 7 were depending on their own works, they were not depending on Jesus alone to save them.
preacher4truth
Active Member
No one disagrees they were depending on works, simmer down fella!!
My contention is, and remains, that not everyone that says they are His, are truly His. They too will be told "I never knew you."
All you argued about above totally missed the mark of the contention, friend.
That what he has done, and you following, is a genuine straw man.
Now stick to the true contention, not the straw man.
:type:
What straw man? Michael correctly said these persons were depending on their works. All a person has to do is read the following verse (22) and they can see that. These persons felt they should be saved because they prophesied in Jesus's name, cast out devils, and did many wonderful works.
Now, a person can be saved and do all of these things, but they do not save you. To be saved you must rely on Jesus 100% to save you.
If your assurace is based on the fact that you read your Bible, go to church every week, do good works, etc... then your house is built on the sand.
Matt 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Jesus is the rock. You must depend on him. If your house stands on Jesus, the rains, floods, and winds will not prevail. But if your house is built on your own works, when the storm comes your house will fall.
Psa 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
Run to Jesus, flee to him, call upon him. He is the rock, the fortress, our shield, our high tower, and our deliverer. Look to him!
preacher4truth
Active Member
One more time. This contention was not about whether they trusted works. Are you following?
In other words, I never made that point a contention. He did in defense. That is a straw man because that was not the issue at hand.
I know you're still following. :wavey:
I know this is not hard.
My contention is that not everyone who says Jesus is their Savior is truly of His sheep. Thus they too will hear "I never knew you." That's all, It's simple really.
Anything other than answering that is straw man argumentation.
Is everyone that says they are His, truly His? Yes or no?
If no, they will hear these solemn words also.
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, somewhere in heaven is this book that has all these names that were written in it before the world was created, and it seems to be extremely important for one to have their name written in that book, and Christ even told His apostles to rejoice that their names were written in heaven, and Paul mentions something about us being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, so maybe, probably, most likely God knows His own from eternity.