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true/False Calvinism Is Without error/Mistake In way Sees the Scriptures!
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Trying to set the record for average number of posts per day?
Absolutely not. I disagree with Calvin on several points, including soteriology. Anyone who is a Baptist cannot agree with him on everything, anyway.
Asked this for 2 MAIN reasons....
To lets the Calvinist here say if this what what is held/believed by us
To let the Arminians know that we do not esteem him as being the "13th" Apostle!
Why so many questions in general? I ask this because starting so many threads every day can come across as spamming the board.
Think large part of this comes from fact that I am posting here when the question comes to me, usually in middle of reading one of the others answering the postings made earlier!
Tom Butler
New Member
Think of it this way. Since JesusFan came along we haven't had a posting drought.
convicted1
Guest
Well, Brother, no man is right on everything, including [gasp] me....LOL
John Calvin was a man, who started a system of theology, and I think it's wrong on many levels, while others believe he is spot on. But no man can have everything right. Just like Jacob Arminius(sp?), he also had a system of theology, some things right and some things wrong. I am sure both were God fearing, and God revrencing(sp?) men, that had a sytem that some loved and some hated. At the end of the day, it boils down to this, they were only men, and mankind is fallable, whereas, God isn't.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
well, except the wrong on many levels
lolJohn Calvin wasn't kept from error just as none of us are.
side note: You are correct on Arminius.
"Revrencing" should have an 'e' after the 'v', but close.
I'm a terrible speller too. Love Firefox spell check!
I'm going to shoot myself in the head if I have to read another Cal/Arminian post...:laugh:
I think a general discuss that all men are fallable does not move the ball down the field, i.e. does not get us closer to truth.
No Calvinist would claim John Calvin was inspired, and they certainly would not agree with him on all points. But if we get specific and ask if they think the five points of the TULIP are all without error, they may put in weasel words but they would agree.
Personally, I am convinced four of the five points of the TULIP are in error. I believe the Bible teaches fallen men have limited spiritual ability, which they can loose by the practice of sin (or the intervention of God). So Calvinism misses the mark with regard to the T. I believe God's individual election for salvation is conditioned of His crediting of our faith as righteousness, and so Calvinism misses the mark with regard to the U. Like almost all Baptists, I agree with John Calvin that Christ died for all men, but Calvinism differs from John Calvin on this point. So Calvinism misses the mark with regard to the L. And, finally, I believe the grace of God's revelation is resistible, we can choose to trust in it, or not, and so whether we trust in Christ with all our heart is volitional on our part, but if God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us in Christ, and protect our faith forever, that grace is not resistible.
No Calvinist would claim John Calvin was inspired, and they certainly would not agree with him on all points. But if we get specific and ask if they think the five points of the TULIP are all without error, they may put in weasel words but they would agree.
Personally, I am convinced four of the five points of the TULIP are in error. I believe the Bible teaches fallen men have limited spiritual ability, which they can loose by the practice of sin (or the intervention of God). So Calvinism misses the mark with regard to the T. I believe God's individual election for salvation is conditioned of His crediting of our faith as righteousness, and so Calvinism misses the mark with regard to the U. Like almost all Baptists, I agree with John Calvin that Christ died for all men, but Calvinism differs from John Calvin on this point. So Calvinism misses the mark with regard to the L. And, finally, I believe the grace of God's revelation is resistible, we can choose to trust in it, or not, and so whether we trust in Christ with all our heart is volitional on our part, but if God chooses to credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us in Christ, and protect our faith forever, that grace is not resistible.
Van ....this is where we believers of DoG feel you fall off the radar screen.....here is your statement.
I believe the Bible teaches fallen men have limited spiritual ability, which they can loose by the practice of sin (or the intervention of God)
Fallen man has NO spiritual ability but you claim they loose any spiritual ability by practicing sin.....I would argue they never had it & will practice sin in due course of every day life cause they are totally corrupt right from birth. 2 very different ways of looking at it.
I believe the Bible teaches fallen men have limited spiritual ability, which they can loose by the practice of sin (or the intervention of God)
Fallen man has NO spiritual ability but you claim they loose any spiritual ability by practicing sin.....I would argue they never had it & will practice sin in due course of every day life cause they are totally corrupt right from birth. 2 very different ways of looking at it.
What!
You don't like being predestined to have to keep reading this here on BB until either Lord returns, or we all can agree?
Predestination is all about Gods elect, not things like posts on a board.:laugh: Right!
PS: We will never straighten this disagreement out till the Lord returns.
Romans chapter 1 sure says fallen men can understand divine attributes from what God has made, therefore supporting some spiritual ability. Matthew 13 speaks of 4 soils, three of which have some spiritual ability. Romans 9:30-33 speaks of Jews seeking God through the works of the Law, demonstrating some spiritual ability to discern and desire the divine. Now Paul does teach that the unregenerate, who have not been indwelt with the Holy Spirit cannot understand "spiritual things." Calvinism reads the verse as "cannot understand [all] spiritual things, and non-Cals read it as "cannot understand [some] spiritual things. The basis of the non-Cal view is the context which says (1 Corinthians 3:1) I could not address you as "spiritual people" but as men of the flesh, as infants in Christ [equating the two in the area of discernment]. I fed you with milk [fundamentals of the gospel] not solid food [which can only be discerned with the aid of the Holy Spirit] for you were not ready for it. The men of the flesh do not even have the Spirit so it is impossible for them to understand "solid food spiritual things" for neither infants in Christ, who have not yet learned from their indwelt Spirit, nor men of the flesh who will never learn unless indwelt, can understand "solid food" spiritual things. On the other hand, and contrary to Calvinisms false doctrine, both infants in Christ and men of the flesh can understand the "milk spiritual things." Thus limited spiritual ability is the biblical view when all scripture is considered in context.
The Gospel "shorthand" (man-made summary of Bible truth) that is known as "Calvinism" is 100% accurate. It is wildly misunderstood by blind haters and wildly abused by some neo-calvinists
What part is not 100% "Bible"?
1. God is holy and sovereign king in charge of salvation, and man isn't
2. Man is completely incapable of doing right in the sight of God and hellbound wretches at enmity with God
3. God the Father selected (unmerited, unconditional grace) some hellbound wretches to receive His grace, to show the glory of grace
4. God the Son actually atoned and took away the sin of those selected ones so that they might stand justified and holy
5. God the Spirit re-gened the hearts of the selected/atoned-for ones so that they could repent and believe
6. God the Triune Godhead keeps for all eternity the selected/atoned-for/regenerated ones and will lose none
Many today give lip service to #1 but then put THEMSELVES as #2-6 and have salvation depend on them. Foolish and deceived.
What part is not 100% "Bible"?
1. God is holy and sovereign king in charge of salvation, and man isn't
2. Man is completely incapable of doing right in the sight of God and hellbound wretches at enmity with God
3. God the Father selected (unmerited, unconditional grace) some hellbound wretches to receive His grace, to show the glory of grace
4. God the Son actually atoned and took away the sin of those selected ones so that they might stand justified and holy
5. God the Spirit re-gened the hearts of the selected/atoned-for ones so that they could repent and believe
6. God the Triune Godhead keeps for all eternity the selected/atoned-for/regenerated ones and will lose none
Many today give lip service to #1 but then put THEMSELVES as #2-6 and have salvation depend on them. Foolish and deceived.
Thank you Doctor Skinny...... couldnt have said it any better...... BRAVO! :thumbs: