is the "Whosover Wills" Promise To the Elect of God, or to ALL?

[jbh28]

This is a contradiction. If only those who God has elected may come, but God has not elected all men, then all men cannot come.

There was nothing contradictory about Tom's post.

1. All are invited. - true
2. those who respond do so by the electing grace - true
3. All may come. - true. nobody that comes to Christ will be rejected


There is nothing contradicting in that. What is wrong is the bolded part I put in your post. That contradicted what Tom said.

 

[Grace&Truth]

There was nothing contradictory about Tom's post.

1. All are invited. - true
2. those who respond do so by the electing grace - true
3. All may come. - true. nobody that comes to Christ will be rejected


There is nothing contradicting in that. What is wrong is the bolded part I put in your post. That contradicted what Tom said.

Can you please explain what electing grace is????

and where you find this in scripture????

 

[jbh28]

Can you please explain what electing grace is????

and where you find this in scripture????

Sure, it's God electing before the foundation of the world to save by grace individuals.

John 15:16, Acts 13:48, Romans 9, Ephesians 1, Philippians 1:29, I Thess 1:4-5, 2 Thess 2:13, 2 Timothy 1:9, are a few.

 

[kyredneck]

John 3:16 is not an invitation, it is a statement of fact. Period.

The lead in passages are all important here:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3:14,15

And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21:8

Note that the brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten.

.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for Him.

..........another example of regeneration before belief.

Fortunate indeed are those that have been made to feel the serpent's awful sting. Fortunate are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness.

The modern day distortion of John 3:16 with the lopsided focus on 'whosoever believeth', is like placing the emPHASis on the wrong syLAHbull and causes confusion with the topic of God's grace. John 3:16 is not an invitation, it is a statement of fact; a wonderful summation of God's love towards us. Here's the real invitation:

 

[preacher4truth]

John 3:16 is not an invitation, it is a statement of fact. Period.

The lead in passages are all important here:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. Jn 3:14,15

And Jehovah said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a standard: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he seeth it, shall live. Nu 21:8

Note that the brazen serpent was lifted up for those that were bitten.

.........They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Mk 2:17

It is the Spirit working within His children that causes them to feel their need for Him.

..........another example of regeneration before belief.

Fortunate indeed are those that have been made to feel the serpent's awful sting. Fortunate are those that hunger and thirst after righteousness.

The modern day distortion of John 3:16 with the lopsided focus on 'whosoever believeth', is like placing the emPHASis on the wrong syLAHbull and causes confusion with the topic of God's grace. John 3:16 is not an invitation, it is a statement of fact; a wonderful summation of God's love towards us. Here's the real invitation:

Very well said, excellent.

Thank you for that.

I get so tired of people saying John 3:16 is the Gospel. It's not.

Period.

 

[quantumfaith]

Very well said, excellent.

Thank you for that.

I get so tired of people saying John 3:16 is the Gospel. It's not.

Period.

John 3:16 is the ESSENCE of the gospel. I find it much more "offensive" to say as has been said on this board many times, "Calvinism is the gospel" Oh, I forgot. Period.

 

[Tom Butler]

Whosover will means just what it says. All are invited. However, those who respond do so by the electing grace of a merciful God who is grants salvation to those who do not merit it. All may come. And this is our message.

My challenge to everyone on here: take this word of the gospel and share it with someone within the next 48 hours.

Tom, this is good. It is a message that both Cals and Non-Cals may freely preach without qualification.

One thought: God does more than invite men and women to repentance and faith. He commands them.

Acts 17:30

God commands that all men everywhere should repent,

BTW, the response to Paul's sermon commanding repentance was "and some believed."

Those who hear are without excuse. Nowhere do we hear someone saying "I really wanted to repent and trust Christ, but I couldn't." They are under condemnation because they would not.

 

[preacher4truth]

John 3:16 is the ESSENCE of the gospel. I find it much more "offensive" to say as has been said on this board many times, "Calvinism is the gospel"

I wasn't sent to preach an essence. But THE Gospel.

I've never heard a person say "calvinism is the Gospel."

Provide solid source and proof of this that says it just like that that "calvinism is the gospel" since "it" has been said "many times" it shouldn't be hard to find it.

I just don't happen to believe you.

:thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

I wasn't sent to preach an essence. But THE Gospel.

I've never heard a person say "calvinism is the Gospel."

Provide solid source and proof of this that says it just like that that "calvinism is the gospel" siunce "it" has been said "many times" it sholdn't be hard to find it.

I just don't happen to believe you.

:thumbsup:

Fine, don't believe me. Makes no difference to me. But I am not a Liar on this.

 

[jbh28]

I wasn't sent to preach an essence. But THE Gospel.

I've never heard a person say "calvinism is the Gospel."

Provide solid source and proof of this that says it just like that that "calvinism is the gospel" since "it" has been said "many times" it shouldn't be hard to find it.

I just don't happen to believe you.

:thumbsup:

Here's Spurgeon's comments with some context.

"I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus."​

 

[preacher4truth]

Fine, don't believe me. Makes no difference to me. But I am not a Liar on this.

Uh, OK. In other words [snip - personal attacks are not permitted] . That's the norm.

And you have no proof only accusations that are unfounded.

Got something to slam others with, with no proof other than your own hearsay?

Probably more wise to keep a "guard over your mouth?" (to put it to you Biblically.)

And no, I don't believe you, nor take your word for it.

 

[quantumfaith]

Here's Spurgeon's comments with some context.

"I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus."​

Thank You JBH, I was aware of it being a portion of a Spurgeon quote, but it had (on many occasions) been quoted in an "extra context" manner.

 

[preacher4truth]

Here's Spurgeon's comments with some context.

"I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus."​

That's spurgeon, not folks on here.

His intended target was not spurgeon, but BB folks.

Calvninism is NOT the Gospel

 

[jbh28]

That's spurgeon, not folks on here.

His intended target was not spurgeon, but BB folks.

Calvninism is NOT the Gospel

People have quoted Spurgeon before. And I agree, Calvinism isn't the gospel. The gospel is the good news that Christ died for our sins and rose again because we are sinners to a Holy God.

That's why I included the context to give a fuller picture of what Spurgeon was saying. He was NOT saying that the TULIP was the gospel.

 

[Rippon]

This is a contradiction. If only those who God has elected may come, but God has not elected all men, then all men cannot come.

You don't believe that God has elected every single person who has ever lived do you?! Of course not --you would be a Universalist if that was the case. Since God elected some --others are not of the elect --they were not chosen.

 

[preacher4truth]

People have quoted Spurgeon before. And I agree, Calvinism isn't the gospel. The gospel is the good news that Christ died for our sins and rose again because we are sinners to a Holy God.

That's why I included the context to give a fuller picture of what Spurgeon was saying. He was NOT saying that the TULIP was the gospel.

Amen. More concisely it is the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of our Savior.

I'm a biblicist, some call this calvinism.

I don't worship this man, nor go around proclaiming him, as others on here do.

I'm certain John Calvin is OK with that.

 

[quantumfaith]

People have quoted Spurgeon before. And I agree, Calvinism isn't the gospel. The gospel is the good news that Christ died for our sins and rose again because we are sinners to a Holy God.

That's why I included the context to give a fuller picture of what Spurgeon was saying. He was NOT saying that the TULIP was the gospel.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[Rippon]

I don't worship this man, nor go around proclaiming him, as others on here do.

I'm certain John Calvin is OK with that.

Who on here worhips and proclaims John Calvin? The Gospel is what I proclaim. I worship Christ.

Just who are these "as others on here",as you said?

 

[psalms109:31]

Effectual call

God loved the world is an effectual call to God for me. I am not saying all are drawn by it, but I being a wee little man was. I loved God ever since my next door neighbor told me of His love. I don't remember my life before that day. I knew what was meant by God loved the world the creator of the universe loved me. I started real young It wasn't until I was eleven at summer camp that God introduced me to His Son. I understood the next part and I gave my heart to Jesus, but that does in no way take away from God loved the world, except only those who trust(believe) in Jesus will be saved.

 

[percho]

People have quoted Spurgeon before. And I agree, Calvinism isn't the gospel. The gospel is the good news that Christ died for our sins and rose again because we are sinners to a Holy God.

That's why I included the context to give a fuller picture of what Spurgeon was saying. He was NOT saying that the TULIP was the gospel.

Is that the gospel or the first of importance of how we may participate in the gospel.

Acts 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. Acts 17:7 Whom Jason hath received; and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying another to be king -- Jesus. Verse 2,3 for three sabbaths he was reasoning with them from the Writings, opening and alleging, That the Christ (the anointed) it behoved to suffer, and to rise again out of the dead, and that this is the Christ -- Jesus whom I proclaim to you.

Anointed what?