is the "Whosover Wills" Promise To the Elect of God, or to ALL?

[percho]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rev. 22:17

Relative to all of mankind all over the world are the rules of engagement between man and God different in the time frame of chapter 22 of the book of Revelation and today

Jesus the prophet like unto Moses said, John 7:37 last part 38 If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

But when did he say this 37 first part In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Prophetically is this not the same time frame as Rev. 22? The last sabbath day of the last feast.

 

[Winman]

Sure, it's God electing before the foundation of the world to save by grace individuals.

John 15:16, Acts 13:48, Romans 9, Ephesians 1, Philippians 1:29, I Thess 1:4-5, 2 Thess 2:13, 2 Timothy 1:9, are a few.

None of those verses say God has chosen only certain men while others are passed over or excluded. Show me where the scriptures ever say that.

Gal 5:4 Christ is *become* of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are *fallen* from grace.

How can God's grace "become" of no effect to someone unless it was first effectual?

How can a person "fall" from grace unless it was offered them?

So, those verses you cited in no way say God chooses to pass over or exclude anyone. It is man who excludes himself, who falls away from the grace offered him by attempting to justify himself through the works of the law. God's grace has "become" of no effect for them, but originally it was.

 

[jbh28]

None of those verses say God has chosen only certain men while others are passed over or excluded. Show me where the scriptures ever say that.

Gal 5:4 Christ is *become* of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are *fallen* from grace.

How can God's grace "become" of no effect to someone unless it was first effectual?

How can a person "fall" from grace unless it was offered them?

So, those verses you cited in no way say God chooses to pass over or exclude anyone. It is man who excludes himself, who falls away from the grace offered him by attempting to justify himself through the works of the law. God's grace has "become" of no effect for them, but originally it was.

Why don't you respond to my other post that I had replied to you. I just simply answered the question.

 

[kyredneck]

[snip]

Who on here..... proclaims John Calvin?

Heheh, imo, by far and away it's the anti-Cals that proclaim John Calvin through their incessant quest to stamp out the doctrines of God's sovereign grace.

I wonder how often his name would even be mentioned if it weren't for the anti-Cals.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

[snip]



Heheh, imo, by far and away it's the anti-Cals that proclaim John Calvin through their incessant quest to stamp out the doctrines of God's sovereign grace.

I wonder how often his name would even be mentioned if it weren't for the anti-Cals.

You never said a truer word dear brother.:thumbsup:

 

[quantumfaith]

Uh, OK. In other words [snip - personal attacks are not permitted] . That's the norm.

And you have no proof only accusations that are unfounded.

Got something to slam others with, with no proof other than your own hearsay?

Probably more wise to keep a "guard over your mouth?" (to put it to you Biblically.)

And no, I don't believe you, nor take your word for it.

I do not think you could be any more [snip - personal attacks are not permitted]

 

[preacher4truth]

I do not think [snip - personal attacks are not permitted]

[snip - personal attacks are not permitted]

I was over this whole thing even before I finished typing a response to your unfounded attack on folks here that you alleged claim Calvin is the Gospel, and that they've done so many times. Still no proof.

[snip - personal attacks are not permitted]

 

[quantumfaith]

Looks to me you're the one with the snotty nose still poo-pooin about it. :tear:

I was over this whole thing even before I finished typing a response to your unfounded attack on folks here that you alleged claim Calvin is the Gospel, and that they've done so many times. Still no proof.

Grow up a little, no? Perhaps a lot, yes?

:laugh::laugh:

Q.E.D.

 

[psalms109:31]

Is not the DoG trusting in the finished work of Christ not trusting in our trust? Isn't what Spurgeon believed that grace is trusting in the finished work of Christ?

 

[Winman]

Why don't you respond to my other post that I had replied to you. I just simply answered the question.

This reply?

There was nothing contradictory about Tom's post.

1. All are invited. - true
2. those who respond do so by the electing grace - true
3. All may come. - true. nobody that comes to Christ will be rejected


There is nothing contradicting in that. What is wrong is the bolded part I put in your post. That contradicted what Tom said.

The part of Tom's post (and yours) I consider error and contradiction is this statement I have bolded:

Whosover will means just what it says. All are invited. However, those who respond do so by the electing grace of a merciful God who is grants salvation to those who do not merit it. All may come. And this is our message.

My challenge to everyone on here: take this word of the gospel and share it with someone within the next 48 hours.

According to Calvinism, all MAY NOT COME. Only those who receive the effectual calling can come, those who receive a general calling cannot come.

A Calvinist cannot honestly say all who hear the gospel can come, because they don't believe that. They believe only those who receive the effectual calling can come, those who receive the general calling cannot come.

Now that I have answered your question, how about you answering mine?

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

How can God's grace "become" of no effect to a person unless it were first effectual?

How can a person "fall" from grace if God's grace is not offered them?

I answered your question, now you answer mine.

 

[Skandelon]

3. All may come. - true. nobody that comes to Christ will be rejected

Can you explain how those already rejected since the foundation of the world (not elect) may come?

Joe Heathen was born non-elect and totally depraved, thus unable to willingly come to Christ. Explain to us how Joe may come to Christ?

 

[JesusFan]

Can you explain how those already rejected since the foundation of the world (not elect) may come?

Joe Heathen was born non-elect and totally depraved, thus unable to willingly come to Christ. Explain to us how Joe may come to Christ?

Will he even be willing though to come to Christ?

Does God "owe" him the chance to actually get saved or not?

Please explain how God could by Grace enable him to have a real ability to come to Christ, yet he ends up rejecting it?

 

[webdog]

Will he even be willing though to come to Christ?

Does God "owe" him the chance to actually get saved or not?

Please explain how God could by Grace enable him to have a real ability to come to Christ, yet he ends up rejecting it?

How can it even be deemed an offer? Words have meanings. Can I genuinely offer you a million bucks if I don't have it, or if I do but have no intention of ever giving it to you? Is it a real offer or fake as defined?

 

[Winman]

Will he even be willing though to come to Christ?

Does God "owe" him the chance to actually get saved or not?

Please explain how God could by Grace enable him to have a real ability to come to Christ, yet he ends up rejecting it?

The word "enable" does not mean "causes". If I wrote you a PM and said I will send you a free Super Bowl ticket if you PM me back with your name and address, I have enabled you to receive a free Super Bowl ticket, but I have not caused you to have a free ticket. You must first believe me. If you do not believe me but think I am lying, you will not respond and send me your information. If you do believe me, you must respond. I enabled you, but you must do the responding. If you refuse to respond, no free ticket.

 

[percho]

Can you explain how those already rejected since the foundation of the world (not elect) may come?

Joe Heathen was born non-elect and totally depraved, thus unable to willingly come to Christ. Explain to us how Joe may come to Christ?

How about through a resurrection to physical life and righteous judgement?


And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make [it].

 

[jbh28]

Can you explain how those already rejected since the foundation of the world (not elect) may come?

Joe Heathen was born non-elect and totally depraved, thus unable to willingly come to Christ. Explain to us how Joe may come to Christ?

Because anyone may come. God will not reject anyone that comes to him. And nobody is "rejected since the foundation of the world. I thought you used to be a Calvinist? Rejected gives the idea that one comes and is not allowed to come...rejected, but Calvinism doesn't teach that people come and are rejected.

 

[jbh28]

According to Calvinism, all MAY NOT COME.

Actually that's not true. You have just had Tom and I to tell you that's not true. So why would you continue to say that. Calvinism doesn't teach that "all may not come" but that "all may come."

Only those who receive the effectual calling can come,

true

those who receive a general calling cannot come.

those that only receive the general call because everyone receives the general call to salvation.

A Calvinist cannot honestly say all who hear the gospel can come, because they don't believe that. They believe only those who receive the effectual calling can come, those who receive the general calling cannot come.

True because they would rather stay in their sin.

Now that I have answered your question, how about you answering mine?

You didn't answer any question at all. Still no contradiction.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

How can God's grace "become" of no effect to a person unless it were first effectual?

How can a person "fall" from grace if God's grace is not offered them?

I answered your question, now you answer mine.

Unless you are advocating that one can lose his salvation, it's obviously not speaking about a saved person falling from Grace. If the person is not saved, then it was never effective. The word "become of no effect" means to be severed from/separated. unsaved people are separated from God. The passage is about people that were trying to be justified by the law and not of the Grace offered to them.

oh, and God's grace is offered to everyone.

 

[jbh28]

How can it even be deemed an offer? Words have meanings. Can I genuinely offer you a million bucks if I don't have it, or if I do but have no intention of ever giving it to you? Is it a real offer or fake as defined?

If you are not going to give it even if they do come, then it would not be a genuine offer. If you would give it to them if they did, then it is a genuine offer.

the grace of God is offered to all, but not all will come. the Atonement of Christ is of infinite value and sufficient to save all(as worded in the Canons of Dort)

 

[webdog]

If you are not going to give it even if they do come, then it would not be a genuine offer. If you would give it to them if they did, then it is a genuine offer.

the grace of God is offered to all, but not all will come. the Atonement of Christ is of infinite value and sufficient to save all(as worded in the Canons of Dort)

The gospel and atonement aren't for the non elect, hence it cannot be a true offer.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Winman]

Because anyone may come. God will not reject anyone that comes to him. And nobody is "rejected since the foundation of the world. I thought you used to be a Calvinist? Rejected gives the idea that one comes and is not allowed to come...rejected, but Calvinism doesn't teach that people come and are rejected.

But you believe they were passed over (rejected) by God before the foundation of the world and CANNOT come. This is a direct contradiction of what you and Tom said, you both said "All may come".

Do you think we cannot discern the difference between saying "none who come shall be rejected" and "All may come."?

You really believe people are gullible don't you?