is the "Whosover Wills" Promise To the Elect of God, or to ALL?

[Jim1999]

Grace is the saving act; faith is the vehicle...In divine terms grace and faith are united in one act.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[DHK]

"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Acts 15:10-11

By grace are you saved.

You quote as much as Eph. 2:8 as Psalm 14:1 says "There is no God."
Is that what you also believe. It seems so by the way you take Scripture out of context.

Here is what Eph.2:8 says,
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8)

Here is what Psalm 14:1 says:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. (Psalms 14:1)

Romans 11. Grace in election saves.

Only Christ saves. Faith in Christ saves. If you are trusting election to save you, you are condemned already.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

 

[DHK]

His Grace saves.

Are you unable to answer the OP:

is the "Whosover Wills" Promise To the Elect of God, or to ALL? Just who was this promise being made to by God?

 

[Jim1999]

Without election of God, you are unable to do anything. You are dead.....dead...a corpse, in sin and trespasses!

By grace and faith you are drawn to the Saviour......only then can you apply human responses. And they are just responses, not first acts.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[jbh28]

Well, page 15 and now the discussion has turned from if "whosoever" is given to the whole world to the faith vs grace discussion that was closed.

and just to pipe in. Salvation is by grace through faith as Paul put it. There is no salvation without faith, but salvation is by grace. Faith is the channel God uses, but it is still the grace of God that saves.

- it's interesting because my pastor mentioned this tonight.

 

[percho]

Acts 15:14 revised: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take whosoever would come out of them as a people for his name.

Think I will stay with the original.

 

[Winman]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. (Jeremiah 13:23)

DHK, I get the impression that last verse was for me. The scriptures do not say that 100% of what unregenerate man does is sin. The word "accustomed" in that verse means learned behavior, look it up and see for yourself. When the scriptures say none doeth good, it is speaking of 100% righteousness, it is not saying man does 100% evil. When unregenerate man tells the truth, that is no sin. To say otherwise is to make God's commands nonsensical.

Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

This is what the scriptures mean by just or good, 100% righteous. No man does this. How do I know this? Verse 29.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

This verse is not speaking of Adam only, the word "they" shows this. Men are not born sinners, we are created upright. But all men do go astray and sin.

 

[DHK]

Without election of God, you are unable to do anything. You are dead.....dead...a corpse, in sin and trespasses!

By grace and faith you are drawn to the Saviour......only then can you apply human responses. And they are just responses, not first acts.

Cheers,

Jim

1. Election is always directed toward the saved.
2. Election is the business of God.
3. We do not know who the elect are; that is God's business.
4. We need to concern ourself, first with our own salvation--whether or not we are saved, and then secondly, the salvation of others (i.e. the Great Commission.
5. In view of the Great Commission we do not know who the elect are, so "election" has no relevance. We are to preach the gospel anyway.
6. In preaching the gospel we note that salvation is the gift of God to be received by faith.

 

[Winman]

Well, page 15 and now the discussion has turned from if "whosoever" is given to the whole world to the faith vs grace discussion that was closed.

and just to pipe in. Salvation is by grace through faith as Paul put it. There is no salvation without faith, but salvation is by grace. Faith is the channel God uses, but it is still the grace of God that saves.

- it's interesting because my pastor mentioned this tonight.

It's nice to see we agree on something. Yes, we are saved by grace, but we only have access into this grace by faith (Rom 5:2).

Now if this is true, which comes first, faith or regeneration? Or rather, which is the cause and which is the effect, faith or regeneration?

 

[Jim1999]

Sorry, not worth a response. Just a suggestion, Study a little theology.

Cheers,

Jim:tonofbricks:

 

[jbh28]

1. Election is always directed toward the saved.
2. Election is the business of God.
3. We do not know who the elect are; that is God's business.
4. We need to concern ourself, first with our own salvation--whether or not we are saved, and then secondly, the salvation of others (i.e. the Great Commission.
5. In view of the Great Commission we do not know who the elect are, so "election" has no relevance. We are to preach the gospel anyway.
6. In preaching the gospel we note that salvation is the gift of God to be received by faith.

The elect will always get saved. God doesn't elect people to hell. so correct here. And as you said, since we do not know who the elect are, we should share the gospel with all. We should be encouraged to know that in sharing the gospel, it will not be in vain because God has elected people to salvation and they will come! Praise be to God!

 

[jbh28]

It's nice to see we agree on something. Yes, we are saved by grace, but we only have access into this grace by faith (Rom 5:2).

Now if this is true, which comes first, faith or regeneration? Or rather, which is the cause and which is the effect, faith or regeneration?

I wonder how many rabbit trails we could go on this. This is not what the OP is about and won't go down that path.

 

[jbh28]

Without election of God, you are unable to do anything. You are dead.....dead...a corpse, in sin and trespasses!

By grace and faith you are drawn to the Saviour......only then can you apply human responses. And they are just responses, not first acts.

Cheers,

Jim

Well said Jim.

 

[Winman]

I wonder how many rabbit trails we could go on this. This is not what the OP is about and won't go down that path.

I think you know the answer. To be regenerated is to receive God's grace, how could being made spiritually alive not be?

But you now agree that we receive grace through faith.

So, logically, faith precedes regeneration.

Oh, I know your comeback, you will say they happen at the same instant. Nevertheless, faith is the cause and regeneration is the effect. Unfortunately, a person has to be very careful debating with you as you like to use what Van calls "wiggle words". That is why I rephrased the question to ask which is the cause and which is the effect.

And you refuse to answer. What a surprise.

 

[DHK]

The elect will always get saved. God doesn't elect people to hell. so correct here. And as you said, since we do not know who the elect are, we should share the gospel with all. We should be encouraged to know that in sharing the gospel, it will not be in vain because God has elected people to salvation and they will come! Praise be to God!

Amen! That is why I am not concerned about election.
Now if we can get back to the OP it would be a bit more refreshing.