Salvation minus repentance equals salvation?

[Iconoclast]

A saving faith includes repentance.
This is the basic truth that I have been trying to get across.
It is why the Bible does not say: Believe and repent (in the epistles).
Faith includes repentance. I have never denied repentance. Repentance is the flip side of faith. They go together.

Well....Ok DHK....it seems like to many here that you were saying something else.....I think that by the reactions you can see that:smilewinkgrin:

I know that sometimes the keyboard has restrictions to it....plus you are in canada so that makes you a suspect to begin with:laugh::wavey:

In time we can pursue some of these ideas further...but I have to get back to work now for awhile...later on...

 

[Alive in Christ]

DHK...

Let's look at it another way. Did you have to repent of your sins in order to be saved.

Absolutely not. I simply wanted Christ. and new life.

You would have a works salvation.

Of course.

Salvation is not reformation, but regeneration. It is not doing this and that, and this and that; and cleaning up your life in order to be saved. Do I have to repent of all my sins and get my life all in order before I can be saved. I hope not. I will never be saved if that is true.

A person wouldnt be able to remember every sin they ever commited, much less repent of them all.

That is a religion that is based on works. The Bible does not teach: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repent and you shall be saved. It simply says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Why are people adding to the word of God?

I dont know.

Salvation is a free gift. Repentance comes after, as God starts dealing with the new born christian.

People get it backwards. They want it to be "repent of all your sins, and God will accept you"

When its actually "embrace Christ, and God will clean you up.

 

[convicted1]

Rev. 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Right here, even though this is NT scriptures, it is referencing to an OT occurance. Even Jezebel, as wicked as she was, was give a "space" to repent by God, and she repented not. At the end of the story, the dogs ate everything of her, except her head, feet, and hands. So, repentance has been required for salvation. No one gets salvation without repentance.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK...



Absolutely not. I simply wanted Christ. and new life.



Of course.



A person wouldnt be able to remember every sin they ever commited, much less repent of them all.



I dont know.

Salvation is a free gift. Repentance comes after, as God starts dealing with the new born christian.

People get it backwards. They want it to be "repent of all your sins, and God will accept you"

When its actually "embrace Christ, and God will clean you up.

AIC....
So....do you think Peter got it wrong in Acts 2 when he commanded them;

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Looks like Peter "got it backwards"......3000 times

 

[convicted1]

AIC....
So....do you think Peter got it wrong in Acts 2 when he commanded them;

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Looks like Peter "got it backwards"......3000 times

I kinda think it goes like this: faith, repentance, and then salvation....or could it be repentance, then faith, then salvation? I thinks its the first scenario, and not the second. But, I could be wrong. I really need to study this some more, to get a better understanding of this process. Regardless, salvation happens after repentance, and not before. You can't be saved without faith, and repentance corresponds with faith.

 

[preacher4truth]

DHK... Absolutely not. I simply wanted Christ. and new life. Of course. person wouldnt be able to remember every sin they ever commited, much less repent of them all. I dont know.
Salvation is a free gift. Repentance comes after, as God starts dealing with the new born christian. People get it backwards. They want it to be "repent of all your sins, and God will accept you" When its actually "embrace Christ, and God will clean you up.

More error and assumption by the both of you.

The new life you wanted was God setting you free from the bondage of sin you were in. That's called Him leading you to repentance first.

Gods' Word says repentance comes first. Not second, as you say. You're mixing up sanctification with repentance.

1) Repentance is not a work, unless you did it on your own, which is possible. But true repentance to salvation? It's a gift of God, not a work.

2) Stop getting it backwards as you say. Only God grants repentance. Just as He grants salvation. No one on here is saying "repent of all your sins and Gow will accept you" accept for you and DHK. Therefore, neither of you truly know what Biblical repentance is.

3) Show me where the Bible says "embrace Christ and He will clean you up."

- Oh, you can't. It doesn't that's man made.

4) God commands all men to repent, Acts 17:30. Acts 20:21? "repentance toward God (note that repentance is first and foremost) and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Also, God is awaiting His People, Sovereignly, and has withheld His Son, for the specific reason that His people come to what thing in 2 Peter 3:9? Repentance. It must be very important as an ingredient of salvation. Not only that, but it's a gift God gives them, 2 Timothy 2:25, and what He leads us to, by His goodness, Romans 2:4.

5) Repentance is not something you did, it's something God did, in you.

Both of you need to study out the differences of sanctification in the life of believers, and be capable of discerning between it and repentance. And also see that without this work of God in repentance, there is no genuine salvation.

And one of you needs to discontinue misrepresenting and saying I've defined repentance, when I never have, and misrepresenting yourself, when others prove you wrong, like we "just don't get it." Please. Stop with your nonsense. These men and ladies on here are WAY smarter than what you give to them, so stop your condescension and malignment of them? It's foolish, and uneccessary.

If you want my take on it's definition (repentance), I just gave it to you.

That you twist my words and blurred everything to make yourself look right DHK is a commentary on you as a person.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Preacher4truth...

3) Show me where the Bible says "embrace Christ and He will clean you up."

Jesus opens His arms to sinners and says "Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy and laden and I will give you rest."

He doesnt say "Repent of all you sins! Get those sins out of your life! Then I will accept you. Then you will be "good" enough.


A lost man has no ability to "repent of all their sins" because they dont have the power to.

Jesus said "apart from me, you can do nothing"

We need the Holy Spirit to enable us to acceptably "put off the old man", and "put on the new man".

That occurs AFTER we have come to Christ.

The salvation experience is a simple act of surrender. It is not a transaction where the sinner casts all of his sin out of his life (as if that were possible), and then God says "Now you are good enough to be a christian".

The only "repenting" God wants from a lost person is for the sinner to turn from NOT wanting Jesus, to WANTING Jesus

 

[DHK]

DHK...



Absolutely not. I simply wanted Christ. and new life.



Of course.



A person wouldnt be able to remember every sin they ever commited, much less repent of them all.



I dont know.

Salvation is a free gift. Repentance comes after, as God starts dealing with the new born christian.

People get it backwards. They want it to be "repent of all your sins, and God will accept you"

When its actually "embrace Christ, and God will clean you up.

See, I think we agree. That is why there is less emphasis on repentance in the NT and more on faith. Repentance is the flip side of faith. Once we believe, as you say, how can we not change? It is the result of being a new creature in Christ.

 

[JesusFan]

Preacher4truth...



Jesus opens His arms to sinners and says "Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy and laden and I will give you rest."

He doesnt say "Repent of all you sins! Get those sins out of your life! Then I will accept you. Then you will be "good" enough.


A lost man has no ability to "repent of all their sins" because that dont have the power to.

Jesus said "apart from me, you can do nothing"

We need the Holy Spirit to enable us to acceptably "put off the old man", and "put on the new man".

That occurs AFTER we have come to Christ.

The salvation experience is a simple act of surrender. It is not a transaction where the sinner casts all of his out of his life (as if that were possible), and then God says "Now you are good enough to be a christian".

The only "repenting" God wants from a lost person is for the sinner to turn from NOT wanting Jesus, to WANTING Jesus

Think part of the confusion is just how one defines repentance..

Some saying that we are saying God requirements us to repent of ALL known sin before coming to Christ, not what we are saying...

Some say not required, as part of either Gospel to the Jews, or in Acts, Nope...

Just saying is still required, but involves one agreeing with God that we are sinners, cannot save ourselves, need and must have Christ redeem/save us...

basically changing mind set on our "self rightousness" seeing we have nothing to contribute to the salvation "process"...
repent come to God and agree with Him Jesus and He alone can save!

 

[DHK]

1) Repentance is not a work, unless you did it on your own, which is possible. But true repentance to salvation? It's a gift of God, not a work.

If repentance is a gift of God why, according to you, is it a requirement for salvation? Does God repent for you? You make no sense. Indeed one must repent. But God doesn't do it for you.

 

[JesusFan]

If repentance is a gift of God why, according to you, is it a requirement for salvation? Does God repent for you? You make no sense. Indeed one must repent. But God doesn't do it for you.

Think what was said is that in order to be actually able to repent, as well as coming to jesus and get saved, BOTH due to Grace of God being applied to your behalf!

 

[DHK]

AIC....
So....do you think Peter got it wrong in Acts 2 when he commanded them;

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Looks like Peter "got it backwards"......3000 times

That is a verse the cults use. They use it because it seems to say something that it doesn't. It is one of the reasons that I limited my scope to the epistles and not the book of Acts, to avoid such passages.
1. Take into consideration his entire audience were Jews just like John the Baptist's were.
2. He was speaking to the very people that had crucified Christ. They needed to repent of that very sinful act. They were the ones that committed it.
3. It is not baptism that gives remission of sins.
4. This was not the only thing that he said in the conclusion of his message, in his invitation to be saved. Look two verses later:

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (Acts 2:40)

Then look at the result:
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)
--They heard his word. What comes from hearing God's word? Faith! They believed. And after believing on Christ they were baptized, and then they were added unto the First Baptist Church at Jerusalem.

What's the emphasis:
And all that believed were together, and had all things common; (Acts 2:44)

 

[DHK]

Think what was said is that in order to be actually able to repent, as well as coming to jesus and get saved, BOTH due to Grace of God being applied to your behalf!

I am not a Calvinist and vehemently oppose such a position. A person must come to Christ in faith, and in so doing he repents because he does so. God doesn't do it for him. He chooses to put his faith in Christ. Repentance takes place at the same time. It is not a gift of God and neither is faith. Nowhere in the Bible is faith given to the unregenerate. God does not give spiritual gifts and/or the fruit of the spirit to the unregenerate or the unsaved. To put forth such an idea is absurd.

 

[DHK]

Rev. 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Right here, even though this is NT scriptures, it is referencing to an OT occurance. Even Jezebel, as wicked as she was, was give a "space" to repent by God, and she repented not. At the end of the story, the dogs ate everything of her, except her head, feet, and hands. So, repentance has been required for salvation. No one gets salvation without repentance.

Our discussion revolves around repentance in relation to unbelievers, that is repentance needed to be saved. Repentance for the believer is an entirely different subject. Every believer needs to repent of each and every sin (possibly every day) that he commits. See 1John 1:9). That is a totally different topic. Remember that John was writing to believers in the seven churches.

 

[DHK]

Uh, No. What you've tried to get across is that repentance is no longer necessary.

God doesn't believe you, neither do I.

Among many others.

One more time: The epistles say repent.

Many times.

Wake up.

You can attack me if you want, but if you can't make a decent response to my post then perhaps you better stop posting. You have failed to demonstrate the statements that you have just made. You make dogmatic statements without any Scripture to back them up. You are your own authority, and quite frankly you look very foolish.

 

[JesusFan]

I am not a Calvinist and vehemently oppose such a position. A person must come to Christ in faith, and in so doing he repents because he does so. God doesn't do it for him. He chooses to put his faith in Christ. Repentance takes place at the same time. It is not a gift of God and neither is faith. Nowhere in the Bible is faith given to the unregenerate. God does not give spiritual gifts and/or the fruit of the spirit to the unregenerate or the unsaved. To put forth such an idea is absurd.

Not saying any of this though...

Just stating that for a person to come to jesus, must repent and believe in jesus Christ...

Since we do not have this "in ourselves" that one MUST have God apply His Grace towards you and than you CAN make the decision to repent believe and receive jesus, just unable to do that unless/until God enables you to do such!

BOTH Cals/Arms affirm this, difference is Arms say Giod applies that Grace to ALL, all than are enabled to decide yes/no on Jesus...
cals say specifically applied towards God elect, enabled, and they WILL come to Christ.period...

We can agree to disagree on who is graced, but ALL are who do come to Christ!

And gifts/fruits are from/produced by HS, so would need to get saved first!

 

[DHK]

Not saying any of this though...

Just stating that foe a person to come to jesus, must repent and believe in jesus Christ...

Since we do not have this "in ourselves" that one MUST have God apply His Grace towards you and than you CAN make the decision to repent believe and receive jesus, just unable to do that unless/until God enables you to do such!

And gifts/fruits are from/produced by HS, so would need to get saved first!

Even an infant has the innate faith/confidence and trust in his parents that he knows to trust his parents rather than a stranger. Jesus often uses that illustration. Unless your faith be like that of a child you cannot enter the kingdom of God--simple, childlike. It is not given by God. God does not give the unsaved spiritual gifts. Yes we have faith within ourselves. We exercise faith every day. I exercise faith every time I put my key in the ignition of my car that it will start. Where is the object of my faith. It is in the Ford motor company who made the car. The object of my faith is in Christ and his promises who will not fail (my car will someday fail because it is made by man). But God will never fail. God doesn't give unbelievers faith. It is their choice, their faith whether or not to choose Christ as Savior or to reject him.

 

[Dr. Bob]

First message in the NT:
Repent, the kingdom of heaven is as close as your hand (John the Baptist)

First message of Jesus Christ
Repent, the kingdom of heaven is as close as your hand

Any presentation of salvation that just says believe (demons believe) and omits repentance is a false Gospel.