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Question To "Free grace" Camp: CAN a Person be Really Saved and have No Good Works?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
convicted1
Guest
Anything more than "faith" in getting saved is works. Works do not save you, but grace through faith does. That's the equation right there. Now, we are to do "works" once we are saved, but these "works" do not keep you saved. You do these "works" BECAUSE you are saved. Our "works" show the world who we are "working" for.
So you would agree then that only a faith that evidences good works/changed life actualy was genuine saving faith?
Define works.
I believe there is no justification without regeneration.
So as a free gracer I would say salvation is not earned by works, proven by works, or kept by works.
But at the same time I will say that I believe works will inevitably follow.
But you have to define works. If you take a hard drinking skirt chasing brawler saved, his life is bound to change.
But he may not be the Joe Sunday School you imagine. He may drink less, he may cuss less, he may look but don't touch, and may fuss instead of fight.
God can clean any of us up--but who here has not resisted the Holy Spirit at some point past salvation? We would be sinlessly perfect if we didn't. Since we are not, we must be able to resist.
So works will follow--but the degree of cleansing is going to depend on the degree of yielding.
God may be as pleased as punch when a true murderous spirit does not kill, but rather just raises a fuss and walks away.
Humans may see that and say "see, Joe isn't saved. He still lost his temper."
I believe there is no justification without regeneration.
So as a free gracer I would say salvation is not earned by works, proven by works, or kept by works.
But at the same time I will say that I believe works will inevitably follow.
But you have to define works. If you take a hard drinking skirt chasing brawler saved, his life is bound to change.
But he may not be the Joe Sunday School you imagine. He may drink less, he may cuss less, he may look but don't touch, and may fuss instead of fight.
God can clean any of us up--but who here has not resisted the Holy Spirit at some point past salvation? We would be sinlessly perfect if we didn't. Since we are not, we must be able to resist.
So works will follow--but the degree of cleansing is going to depend on the degree of yielding.
God may be as pleased as punch when a true murderous spirit does not kill, but rather just raises a fuss and walks away.
Humans may see that and say "see, Joe isn't saved. He still lost his temper."
just saying that many are coming down to alters, crying, ashamed, confessing, asking God to save them...
Told they are now born again, new creatures in Christ...
yet they show NO evidence of being saved...
Do not read Bible/attend Church/pray etc
Agreed grace alone saves by faith alone YET
As James wrote "can THAT kind of faith actually save a man?"
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Are "WE" always able to see changes in a person? Perhaps sin that has mastered their life for decades is not so easily and immediately cast aside but one could argue that if that is the case, then there certainly must be great tension in their life as the spirit and flesh combat one another. I for one am grateful that God "looks upon the heart".
As am I!
Just was adressing the problem in many of our Churches that people [rofess for Christ, told if they EVER put faith in him, its free and so are saved...
Think ia m talking more to the point of peter telling us to all make our "election sure!" to grow up in the grace and knowledge of our Lord jesus Christ.....
Just addressing "cheap/easy Grace" that can be taught...
have jesus save you, and do what you want while waiting for the rapture!
Tell me how you see 1 Corinthians 3: 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Paul is speaking of believers if they have no works of intrinsic value those works will be consumed by fire but through the trying of their rewards by fire their salvation is intact.
Good point!
based upon being a calvinist, would have to say this passage does teach that one can be really saved, elected, by God, but would NOT want to be in that position of having zilch for eternal rewards!
I believe that was part of Paul's point.
Reply to Jesusfan,
If a person was saved automatically when they believe, and then became unsaved, if they somehow stopped believing, the question would devolve into does saving faith equate with live faith as opposed to "dead faith." Faith without works is dead. So based on this false idea, then works flowing from faith is necessary to sustain salvation. So that option is bogus, if we are saved by grace through faith and not by works.
If a person was saved when God credits a person's faith as righteousness and puts them spiritually in Christ, and protects their faith, the faith would be "live" and the person would be able to discern faithful works in their lives. Conversely, the absence of devotion to Christ would provide no confidence a person was saved.
If a person was saved automatically when they believe, and then became unsaved, if they somehow stopped believing, the question would devolve into does saving faith equate with live faith as opposed to "dead faith." Faith without works is dead. So based on this false idea, then works flowing from faith is necessary to sustain salvation. So that option is bogus, if we are saved by grace through faith and not by works.
If a person was saved when God credits a person's faith as righteousness and puts them spiritually in Christ, and protects their faith, the faith would be "live" and the person would be able to discern faithful works in their lives. Conversely, the absence of devotion to Christ would provide no confidence a person was saved.
There are no works that can save your soul, no matter how many good things you do because you still owe a sin debt that you cannot pay.
Once you place your faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells you and as my pastor says, changes your "want to". You won't always please God but you'll want to.
Works after salvation are the proof of salvation. As James said, faith without works is dead.
Once you place your faith in Christ, the Holy Spirit indwells you and as my pastor says, changes your "want to". You won't always please God but you'll want to.
Works after salvation are the proof of salvation. As James said, faith without works is dead.
I like this post Amy & esp your pastors "Want To" comment.:thumbs:
convicted1
Guest
Well, what is a tree known by? It's fruits. An apple tree does not bring forth pears, figs, roanges, peaches, etc.
Look at it like this. When you plant a sapling, it doesn't bring forth fruit the very next day. It needs time to be watered, fertilized, nurtured. Over time, growth takes place, and the fruits will come to being. Its the same way with us. When He saves us, we are planted in Christ. In time, we get stronger, and can, and will, bring forth the fruits showing the world that we are His.